The ride Joe Morello used on Take Five

dwsabianguy

Senior Member
Man, I don't think those really sound similar at all. The new cymbal isn't anywhere as open and rich sounding as the original, and the new one is also a semitone higher in pitch or so. It's a bit like someone put a strip of tape on an Armand from ten years ago. My 20" Avedis sounds much closer to Joe's cymbal than this new thing does.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
It's pretty close-- that's about the difference I would expect from any two Zildjians of the same model. I always thought that cymbal was a 602-- must be the first of the modern generation of very clean As. It is kind of funny to make such a fetishy video about a pretty ordinary medium ride, even if it was Joe's, and on that record.
 

evolving_machine

Silver Member
You can hear the difference in the new cymbal just when he is handling it when he knocks it a few times. The Zildjians of the late 50's and early 60's are also not as visibly flexible. They havea stiffness and hardness that the new does not. I also suspect that the new Zildjian has that horrible coating over the cymbal.
 

SYMBOLIC DEATH

Senior Member
The other thing that makes it harder to determine if the new cymbal sounds like the original is we're hearing a recording of the original cymbal not the actual cymbal live. So does the new cymbal sound like the recording or the actual cymbal? I'm not even going into Joe's touch when he played it.
There was an article in MD in the late 90's about this kind of topic (recorded ride cymbal sound/tone), and if I remember correctly the moral of the store was don't drive yourself crazy looking for that exact tone because the recording has been EQ'd and your cymbal may have that tone buried in there you just have to fine the eq settings to find it.
 

Godi

Member
No post or youtube video about old/new Zildjjan cymbals without one or more opinions on so better sounds the old one and so good is his own old zildjian XXX cymbal.
Always reminds me the blind test between famed and millions-priced Stradivarius and other violins from new luthiers, all played by renowed violinists, where "surprisingly“ always win the new ones...
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
Am I the only one that cringed every time they let that new cymbal scrape up against the Morello cymbal?!?

I'm surprised the two aren't more similar, especially considering they probably chose the one that sounded the closest for this video. I think the stick sound is pretty close, but every time he shanked the new cymbal it had that typical gongy-ness of a modern A Zildjian that was not pleasant at all.

I can't fault them for trying to duplicate the cymbal and turn it into a product, but what they're calling the finished product doesn't seem finished to me.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
The cymbal smith stated he used the same but also different techniques to produce this cymbal so it should really sound a bit different?? Seems like they wre just piggybacking the fame of the original to introduce an entirely new one under the guise it might sound a bit similar to the original or in hopes people will like it better. It’s honest and conflating but not dishonest -I’m pretty sure you can play Take five on any ride cymbal Lol.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
IMO drumming is more about the intent with which the notes are played rather than the actual cymbal/drum tone. Hey I love good tone as much as the next guy, but intent, execution, and a great sense of what to play...and a hundred other things...to me, is where the music lives.

It seems like they are deliberately trying to create the "Nefertiti" mystique around this cymbal. Kind of forcing the issue.

Nefertiti came to fame organically.

Is Joe's ride tone discussed with the same level of admiration as the Nefertiti ride?

I don't recall reading about that here, ever.
 
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Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I can't recall seeing it discussed here but I'll say that I absolutely love the drum and cymbal sound on the entire Time Out album. There's so much clarity and space it's easy to hear what he's playing and the tone comes through loud and clear. And you can hear it very well in the video above that there's a sweetness to the tone of that cymbal that's pretty special, I think. Considering Zildjian seemingly couldn't duplicate that sound with the original cymbal in hand highlights its unique qualities.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I wonder if some of the difference is recording in analog for records compared to now digital? "Tape decks and record players" always sounded so good to me. I was listening to a Led Zeppelin song remastered digitally on YT and it sounded completely different to me. Terrible TBH. I love the "live" experience and there have been some great live albums over the years. I know recordings have always been "mucked with" but seems like now music is so "Photoshopped" to make any corrections it's almost not the original music. Seems too orderly and too much order drives me crazy.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
I don't recall reading about that here, ever.
WhoisTony posted a piece about Morello's 'Take Five ride' on here a few years ago. It was maybe a facebook link or vid I think.

All that talking in the ZIldjian vid and they never mentioned the weight.
 
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timmdrum

Silver Member
All that talking in the ZIldjian vid and they never mentioned the weight.
Are you referring to the OP's Memphis Drum Shop vid or a vid you recall WhoisTony posted some time ago? In the vid in the OP, they don't mention what the weight is, only that they weighed the original when trying to replicate it.

I'm surprised at how different the "recreation" sounds. I can't imagine it would get close to matching as it ages and gets some patina; I'd think the new one would have to sound closer to the original than this one does.
 

Trip McNealy

Gold Member
Cool video!! As an aside, in the video they showed some Capella sticks memorabilia really quick. I grew up learning drums on Capella sticks; it's a terrible shame they are no longer made. Their 5A was the best stick I ever played in my 30+ years of drumming so far.
 

vyacheslav

Senior Member
So it's basically a re-issue of a 20" A. Zildjian & Cie Vintage from the early 2000's? The new one seems to be more muted and controlled than the original, which I honestly thought the opposite would be true.

I love Joe and Take Five (we all do), but this is a lot of fuss over a very generic sounding, middle of the road medium ride. There are 1000's out there that sound as similar as what Paul Francis made. The cymbals are fairly close, just as 2-20" Medium rides would be from the A. Zildjian line. Joe's cymbal has had 60+ years to age. Can't really re-create that. The thing that makes that cymbal special is Joe's touch and the time and place it was recorded. Take Five was an international hit and is recognized instantly by many people. Is it really about the actual cymbal, or how it was played, and how it's remembered?

Also, the video doesn't tell us if those cymbals are going to be for sale or not? Is it just a one off for John Riley and/or the Memphis Drum Shop? I hope Zildjian doesn't mass produce it and charge $600+ for a medium ride that can be had for $60 on Craigslist that sounds nearly identical.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
So it's basically a re-issue of a 20" A. Zildjian & Cie Vintage from the early 2000's? The new one seems to be more muted and controlled than the original, which I honestly thought the opposite would be true.

I love Joe and Take Five (we all do), but this is a lot of fuss over a very generic sounding, middle of the road medium ride. There are 1000's out there that sound as similar as what Paul Francis made. The cymbals are fairly close, just as 2-20" Medium rides would be from the A. Zildjian line. Joe's cymbal has had 60+ years to age. Can't really re-create that. The thing that makes that cymbal special is Joe's touch and the time and place it was recorded. Take Five was an international hit and is recognized instantly by many people. Is it really about the actual cymbal, or how it was played, and how it's remembered?

Also, the video doesn't tell us if those cymbals are going to be for sale or not? Is it just a one off for John Riley and/or the Memphis Drum Shop? I hope Zildjian doesn't mass produce it and charge $600+ for a medium ride that can be had for $60 on Craigslist that sounds nearly identical.
Yes to all of this.
 
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