The purpose of the second crash

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Michael McDanial

Senior Member
We're not all jazz snobs who think that drumming has to have rules and regulations and that somehow "talent" means playing with the smallest amount of gear possible.
I don't know any jazz drummers with that attitude. Not trying to say that it doesn't exist, but that's a pretty stereotypical statement. Because there's no such thing as a rock snob or a metal snob, right?
 

Hedon

Senior Member
Snare, bass, hats, ride, crash, rack tom, floor tom ... plenty of options. If you can't play melodically with those, no amount of extra gear will help :)

Rim shot/click, bell/bow, single/double stroke, buzz, flam/drag, heel up/down... it's not the gear, it's the drummer that makes the sound.
terrible post in a terrible thread

myself cant afford anything really so no variety but pretending you cant see the point of extra cymbals with such ferocity just screams youre a 15 year old with huge pimples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo
the beat danny plays at the final riff of this song just shows how awesome melodic crashing can be when used correctly
 

BGH

Gold Member
Try playing any crash pattern using just about any combo of 16ths and you'll quickly see why one doesn't do it. Once it moves after the first strike, it isn't there anymore for the second. Then what?

Another reason is that there are times when hitting two crashes for that extra punch is a good thing. If you don't want to use your ride for this, then your stuck.

Also, two crashes separated by roughly a fourth or fifth can make for little micro-melodies as your playing through a chorus, for example.

And as has been mentioned, if your down on your floor tom(s), reaching back to a crash above the hi hat can be not only cumbersome, but limiting.

I'm most comfortable with three crashes. I can get by with two, but if I'm going to go down to one, that ride better be nice and crashable.

This is well stated and is my answer also. Let's say you want to do 2 quick crashes at the end of one measure and leading to the next. So you want to do 1/8 note crash on the 'and of four,' and the next crash on the downbeat of the next measure. I would execute the first crash with my left stick on the left cymbal, and the next crash with my right stick on the right cymbal. Or, as Mike says, you can crash both at exactly the same time for effect.

There are many reasons to have multiple crashes, splashes, chinas, etc. The reason you got people's backs up, is you copped an attitude by asking for advice, and then coming back with 'its the drummer, not the gear.' If you think you have the better thinking, then don't ask for advice.
 

BGH

Gold Member
Listen to anything by the Police, and you'll see why its so much fun to have a bunch of cymbals.
 

Brundlefly

Senior Member
Reasons for more than one crash in order:

  1. Musicality. Shorter, longer, fuller, thinner, brighter, darker. All things that I might want to be able to say with my drumming that are made easier with multiple cymbals. It's not a case a need, but one of desire. When I hear drummers who crash a lot but only have one crash, it is actually kind of irritating to me because there is no break in what becomes an established tension.
  2. Fast crashing, exactly as discussed below. I like fresh crash and I cannot lie.
  3. Comfort. Yes, I can get back to the left side crash when I wind up on the right side of my kit, but why waste that energy if you don't have to... or want to?

I can "get by" with one, but I'm not one for just getting by.
 

Fiery

Silver Member
Then please describe the sound that you would use crash 1 and crash 2 for.

Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
Do you choose to be selectively blind and deaf or is it a handicap you were born with?

Several users stated they use different crashes to get different sounds, that couldn't be produced by a single crash. They obviously know what those sounds are, even if they didn't describe them in detail, they didn't just pick and choose their cymbals by chance.
You didn't describe exactly what is the perfect single crash you use, does this mean that you don't know, and that your single crash doesn't have a distinctive role in your setup, so it's unnecessary?

My Cymbal #1 is a brighter, shorter crash and a brighter, washier ride. My Cymbal #2 is a darker, longer sustaining crash and a darker, pingier ride. I crash #1 when I need a brighter, more cutting sound, and I crash #2 when I need a darker, longer sound. Clear enough?
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Snare, bass, hats, ride, crash, rack tom, floor tom ... plenty of options. If you can't play melodically with those, no amount of extra gear will help :)

Rim shot/click, bell/bow, single/double stroke, buzz, flam/drag, heel up/down... it's not the gear, it's the drummer that makes the sound.
Why do you have two toms? Isn't one enough? You can't get every sound you need out of just one tom?

All your criticisms of two crashes can be applied to YOUR use of two toms.


Then please describe the sound that you would use crash 1 and crash 2 for.

Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
Well, I don't make fun of people who only use one crash, why make fun of people who use two?

If everyone had the exact same set up of a 4pc kit with just one crash, what would the point of that be?

Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, John Bonham, all made their individual voices heard with a variety of cymbals and drums. No one told them having more than one crash was redundant.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
I use three crash cymbals.....I wouldn't describe any of them in order of preferance, i.e. primary, secondary etc. IMHO that has nothing to do with it. They are just different cymbals that I feel compliment each other......three different sounds to provide three different 'voices'. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Moldy

Silver Member
For me, it revolves around the number three.... The Big Three (Kick, Snare, Hihat/Ride), three toms... it only seems natural to have three crashes. Sometimes you want a quick accent to end a tom fill, sometimes you want a huge crash that can be ridden... sortof. And sometimes you just want a wall of noise, and a single cymbal can only produce so much volume. Just a few examples of the uses of more than one crash.

(Yes, I also have three cymbal stands...)
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Then please describe the sound that you would use crash 1 and crash 2 for.

Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
Here's the genesis of the "Jazz Snob" thread!

How about this for an answer: I don't have explain or justify my cymbal set up to you or anyone else. No one else owes you that either.

You like one crash? Great. Got any other questions?
 

Thunderstix

Senior Member
Do you choose to be selectively blind and deaf or is it a handicap you were born with?
So much hatred in one thread. For you in particular that must be because of post-war trauma. If all Serbian citizens are as polite as you, no wonder the country doesn't receive many tourists.

You guys completely derailed a sensible topic.
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Thus I'm wondering what the role is of the auxiliary crash and whether "comfort" warants buying a second crash at € 250. If comfort and not sound is the reason of getting an extra cymbal, why shouldn't I get exactly the same crash?
I'll go back to the "original" question, and pretend those "heated exchanges" don't even exist.​
I know of plenty of drummers who run 2 or 3 crashes that are "exactly the same". Of course, no 2 or 3 cymbals are"exactly the same", but the idea is to get "close enough for government work". And the primary concept behind that is to let multiple crashes "decay" at their own organic, natural, sonic. Multi-crashing a single cymbal sounds way different than successive fast crashes on 3 different cymbals. Each cymbal crash has more time to "breath".​
My use of multiple crashes is a little different. I tend to think in terms of lo-hi, not primary-secondary. If the song melody is accending, then my punches follow that direction (lo-hi). Inverse, if the melody is decending, my punches follow hi-low.​
Snare, bass, hats, ride, crash, rack tom, floor tom ... plenty of options. If you can't play melodically with those, no amount of extra gear will help :)
Rim shot/click, bell/bow, single/double stroke, buzz, flam/drag, heel up/down... it's not the gear, it's the drummer that makes the sound.
Joey Baron is one of my favorite drummers. And a true jedi-master on what a lot of people would consider a "small" kit. But....even as good as Mr. Baron is, there's no way he's gonna get a 17" Zildjian A Custom crash to sound like a 14" Ufip crash. And I ain't no Joey Baron. It's all about personal taste.​
Indeed, I'm a big supporter (as I get older) of only dragging around as much gear as neccessary. For a year, I gigged with just a kick and snare, hat, ride, and 2 crashes. Got paid "just as much" as if I'd had 3 toms along for the ride.​
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I'm a big supporter (as I get older) of only dragging around as much gear as neccessary. For a year, I gigged with just a kick and snare, hat, ride, and 2 crashes. Got paid "just as much" as if I'd had 3 toms along for the ride.
That's a big thing to me. I seem too wedded to my lazy lifestyle and extra kilos to lug more than the minimum.

I'd like a second crash, maybe one of those Sabian AAX El Sabor hand crashes, which sounded nice on one of Thaard's postings. But then I have to spend the cash for it and buy another cymbal stand, store more gear in my little flat, lug it around, set it up, work out where to put it in my setup, and the resources used to manufacture it will probably endanger the stripey-nosed bandicoot or something.

But it would be nice to have that extra voice, and one that would work well with my brush playing - hopefully even mask it altogether :)

But then again, I was looking to upgrade my crash-ride. Sadly, it seems to me that Zildjian sends it's worst stock "downunder" :( Even the two 20" Armands I tried sounded very ordinary! Still waiting for the ol' cymbal love bug to bite ...
 

Hedon

Senior Member
So much hatred in one thread. For you in particular that must be because of post-war trauma. If all Serbian citizens are as polite as you, no wonder the country doesn't receive many tourists.

You guys completely derailed a sensible topic.
hypocrite
its not really hard to read the thread from the beginning and see who the "bad guy" is

the response you gave jpw was full of arrogance even though from the vibe of your posts i would guess he is the superior drummer
 

DogBreath

Administrator Emeritus
For you in particular that must be because of post-war trauma. If all Serbian citizens are as polite as you, no wonder the country doesn't receive many tourists.
One more post like this one earns you a boot from this forum.


(jeez, I take two days off and the knuckleheads come out to play)
 
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