The purpose of the second crash

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Thunderstix

Senior Member
Years ago I got a roland drum with only two cymbal pads: one for the ride and the other for a crash. When playing sessions in studios and in drum cabines, a four piece drum kit with only two cymbal stands is available, again one for the ride and one for the crash. Because of that, I grew accustomed to using only one crash and got rid of effect cymbals.

However, sometimes I wish I got a second crash on the right. Reaching the crash on the left from the floor tom can be done but it's a big swing. I can crash the ride instead but this produces a much bigger roar than I wish.

Thus I'm wondering what the role is of the auxiliary crash and whether "comfort" warants buying a second crash at € 250. If comfort and not sound is the reason of getting an extra cymbal, why shouldn't I get exactly the same crash?
 

JarodMaybern

Senior Member
Some cymbal companies like Sabian make cymbal models with different weights ranging form a thin/crisp crash, to a thicker and heavier crash. I usually set up two cymbals (one on my left another on my right) that are different from each other and contrast well against one another so my cymbal swells are more dynamic. I never really thought of it as comfort though. but i don't see any reason of not getting one there just for comfort. It's all up to you.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
It's not just comfort but like multiple toms, a second crash, will give you another sound and another option while playing.
 

jim_gregory

Senior Member
I use a thin (fast) crash next to the ride and a medium thin next to the hats. And a splash in the middle. The 10 inch splash is more like a REALLY fast crash..kinda. On my roland kit it's a ride/crash on the right and splash/crash on the left. I only will ever use 2 cymbal stands with the acoustic gig kit and the 4 pies fit well on it.
 

ccsimms

Senior Member
It's not just comfort but like multiple toms, a second crash, will give you another sound and another option while playing.
This is the principle reason why two crashes are good. I like to use my second for crashing while riding on a crash, if you have a different crash it'll give you a different tone so you can accentuate on down beats or whatever while riding on a crash. Two crashes have infinite possibilities and you can experiment with many ways to use them. another commonly employed idea with two crashes is rather than playing a fill and then just crashing on the downbeat, you can hit the higher crash a sixteenth note triplet or thirty second note right before the crash or whatever you want, very cool.
 

Thunderstix

Senior Member
My primary crash sounds perfect and I never needed a complementary sound. I can get different sounds from that cymbal based on the intensity of the stroke. When playing time on the hats, I'm not gonna reach out to the far right but am gonna crash the cymbal in front of me.

So what do you use that "other sound" for?
 

JPW

Silver Member
The more options you have the better you can follow the melodic form of the song. I play very melodically so I couln't live without an array of cymbals and toms. =) Doesn't mean less is worse or better though. It's all about the music and context and your style.
 

Thunderstix

Senior Member
The more options you have the better you can follow the melodic form of the song. I play very melodically so I couln't live without an array of cymbals and toms. =) Doesn't mean less is worse or better though. It's all about the music and context and your style.
Snare, bass, hats, ride, crash, rack tom, floor tom ... plenty of options. If you can't play melodically with those, no amount of extra gear will help :)

Rim shot/click, bell/bow, single/double stroke, buzz, flam/drag, heel up/down... it's not the gear, it's the drummer that makes the sound.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
My primary crash sounds perfect and I never needed a complementary sound. I can get different sounds from that cymbal based on the intensity of the stroke. When playing time on the hats, I'm not gonna reach out to the far right but am gonna crash the cymbal in front of me.

So what do you use that "other sound" for?
Just variety. Like having two or three rack toms. All tuned differently for different sounds. A more complete pallet of sound if you will.
I guess Neil Peart and Terry Bozio are having trouble getting the sounds they want out of two toms.
 

Fiery

Silver Member
Snare, bass, hats, ride, crash, rack tom, floor tom ... plenty of options. If you can't play melodically with those, no amount of extra gear will help :)
Yeah, just like a guitar player needs only one string, right? And there's no need for more than seven keys on a piano...

Yes, you can play melodically on a small kit, but you can do even more on a big one.
 

Thunderstix

Senior Member
Just variety. Like having two or three rack toms. All tuned differently for different sounds. A more complete pallet of sound if you will.
I guess Neil Peart and Terry Bozio are having trouble getting the sounds they want out of two toms.
Then please describe the sound that you would use crash 1 and crash 2 for.

Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
 

WayneWickman

Senior Member
You post a question, several people give you their time (on a Sunday morning) to give you insightful answers and you argue with them. I don't know why I'm wasteing my time with you.
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
Then please describe the sound that you would use crash 1 and crash 2 for.

Apparently no one knows and a secondary crash doesn't have a distinct role from the primary crash. It's filler, or should I call it redundant.
This is ridiculous. Why do you put up a thread asking for help on something if you refuse to listen to anyone else's point of view? You're clearly being very closed minded here if you don't think there can possibly be any advantage of having a second crash in terms of sound. I mean why the hell do cymbal manufacturers make all different kinds of crash cymbals of different sizes, weights, thicknesses, finishes, hammering, alloys etc... if "they all just sound the same anyway" which is basically what you are saying.
 

Thunderstix

Senior Member
You post a question, several people give you their time (on a Sunday morning) to give you insightful answers and you argue with them. I don't know why I'm wasteing my time with you.
So for you a discussion equals me posting one message and then not being allowed to participate in the discussion. I have to follow like a sheep and not put anything into doubt.

This is ridiculous. Why do you put up a thread asking for help on something if you refuse to listen to anyone else's point of view? You're clearly being very closed minded here if you don't think there can possibly be any advantage of having a second crash in terms of sound. I mean why the hell do cymbal manufacturers make all different kinds of crash cymbals of different sizes, weights, thicknesses, finishes, hammering, alloys etc... if "they all just sound the same anyway" which is basically what you are saying.
So I am FORCED to listen and to shut up!

I contribute to the discussion by challenging you with a statement that is the summary of previous messages. It's a pity you don't see that. This thread is about rethinking the purpose of a secondary crash. Often people act out of habit, because everyone does so without considering the reason.

The reason why companies sell products is to make money. I never said all crashes sound the same. I choose one and discover all its possibities. Now you tell us why you use a certain crash where another wouldn't fit. Because I sincerely don't know.
 
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GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
From your original post, this is why I have more than one crash.

"However, sometimes I wish I got a second crash on the right. Reaching the crash on the left from the floor tom can be done but it's a big swing. I can crash the ride instead but this produces a much bigger roar than I wish."

If you want a smaller roar you get a second crash. Next question.
 

JPW

Silver Member
Hehe, you could have just said in the original post that "I belong to the 'less is more' camp, I want to argue because I have a bad day". Would have saved the time I used to write the first post.

On the topic: there just isn't one crash that suits for every situation. Feel free to prove me wrong. If your guitar player's melodic form is going from high to low, what do you do when you try to accent it? Just hit the same crash? If so, does it honestly sound good to you?
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
So I am FORCED to listen and to shut up!

I contribute to the discussion by challenging you with a statement that is the summary of previous messages. It's a pity you don't see that. This thread is about rethinking the purpose of a secondary crash. Often people act out of habit, because everyone does so without considering the reason.
Yes, because i have to have a REASON to have my kit set up the way i do, i have to have a REASON to play the drums. Drumming is not some sort of business or a sport, it's supposed to be a free expression. Besides there are good reasons why you would have 2 or more crashes, it's just that you clearly fail to see them. That's fine, don't explore any other possibilities or POVs.

The reason why companies sell products is to make money. I never said all crashes sound the same. I choose one and discover all its possibities. Now you tell us why you use a certain crash where another wouldn't fit. Because I sincerely don't know.
Well clearly that's just answering your own question. I use one crash because another one wouldn't fit that situation. Yes cymbal companies are trying to make money, but the only reason they can make money out of making a variety of cymbals is because every drummer is DIFFERENT. We're not all jazz snobs who think that drumming has to have rules and regulations and that somehow "talent" means playing with the smallest amount of gear possible. Otherwise, they would just make one type of crash cymbal.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Try playing any crash pattern using just about any combo of 16ths and you'll quickly see why one doesn't do it. Once it moves after the first strike, it isn't there anymore for the second. Then what?

Another reason is that there are times when hitting two crashes for that extra punch is a good thing. If you don't want to use your ride for this, then your stuck.

Also, two crashes separated by roughly a fourth or fifth can make for little micro-melodies as your playing through a chorus, for example.

And as has been mentioned, if your down on your floor tom(s), reaching back to a crash above the hi hat can be not only cumbersome, but limiting.

I'm most comfortable with three crashes. I can get by with two, but if I'm going to go down to one, that ride better be nice and crashable.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I need 3 crashes too, a fast duration (16"), a medium duration (I use a 17") and a long duration (20" that doubles as a 2nd ride) Plus I need a splash (10")

They give me the voices I need to best complement different sections of songs. This is both bare minimum and fully equipped for what I need.
 
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