The Origin of the Shuffle Groove

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
The video should be titled "A loose discussion about shuffles...." I mean, I get the Rossanna groove is legendary, but it's not the starting point.

I mean, he doesn' even explain upfront the difference between an 8th note shuffle and the 16h note shuffle that is Rossanna. If I were a new drummer, this would be extremely confusing.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I think you need a paradigm shift on this subject.

Rick is presenting songs he thinks and cool that have unique and easy to understand musical or production processes. For his audience he chooses a mix of songs for variety. He isn't trying to prove anything, he is just showcasing.

As for "What Makes this Song Great?". What other title would you suggest? 'Great' is common and easily understood. It is a good catch all for the music he showcases. YouTube will like it and promote it. Calling it "Songs that Were Produced in Interesting Ways" doesn't really role off the tongue and YouTube algorithm would hate it.
I think I don't care for it and that's okay, regardless of how great anyone else thinks it is, or whether or not they think I should like it. No paradigm shift needed.

As for a title, "Why I Think This Song is Great" would prove a bit more true than just telling us what makes a song great. It isn't up to him, it's up to the listener to decide if the song is great or not. Remember, for every 10 people that love something, 10 hate it also. So how is that great?

The word great, it's used negatively just as much as positively. "Oh great, now I'm late for work."

And for trying to prove anything, just look at the title of this vid, "The Origins of the Shuffle Groove". How does that title not sound like the vid is shrouded in fact? Yet he tells us nothing.
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
Perfect example of a completely useless 'instructional' video..

I saw 2 men who came up with a video-title and after that, during the whole 11 minutes, completely had no clue about what to say regarding the subject..
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
As for a title, "Why I Think This Song is Great" would prove a bit more true than just telling us what makes a song great. It isn't up to him, it's up to the listener to decide if the song is great or not. Remember, for every 10 people that love something, 10 hate it also. So how is that great?
Having to qualify stuff with "this is just my opinion" gets kind of silly after a while, no? It's all opinions. I don't care what the title of the series is, it's full of content that lots of us enjoy. It seems like we're arguing semantics.

I don't like all the songs he deconstructs, either, but it never occurred to me that he was trying to force his opinions down my throat. He's passionate about music and offers a ton of insight and that's why I like the series and I think why others do, too.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Well his name is Rick "Beato" so seems a name beckoning to be exploited. I like his breaking down guitar stuff-not so much his drum stuff. He's got a musical name, his hair has grayed so appears old enough to have wisdom, and he's got the "attitude/chutzpah" to appear authoritative. He should be a politician LOL. I don't watch the songs he does I don't like. YT is such a strange Wild West to explore-I'm amazed at the talent that goes unnoticed with few views and subscribers, but I think the difference is in some people don't care about that and others really go the distance to build their's-also greed since you can monetize your channel. Please don't tell me you can make more on YT than gigging-if so that explains a lot.
 

newoldie

Silver Member
"There's a guy called Stone who wrote stick control... I think it was in the early 1900's..." :confused:
Quite an understated/under-informed reference to the great George Stone Stick Control book published in 1935-- this coming from a "first call drum-set artist" (as this drummer's web site touts him to be).
 

MrPockets

Gold Member
I think I don't care for it and that's okay, regardless of how great anyone else thinks it is, or whether or not they think I should like it. No paradigm shift needed.
8Mile's post basically sums it up. I think "This is great" said in common parlance does not imply forcing facts on others.

How does that title not sound like the vid is shrouded in fact? Yet he tells us nothing.
We agree that the shuffle video is whack, but that isn't on topic with the "What Makes this Song Great?" discussion.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Rick Beato reminds me of a heavier version of Rick from the "Rick and Morty" cartoon show. I'd like to see a cartoon version of Rick Beato on "Rick and Morty". That would be hilarious.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
The thesis of the video: shuffle originated from players traveling from south (Mississippi, NOLA, etc.) to Chicago on trains and the sound of the trains. That's fine: it's a thesis a theory an opinion. Cool. They should have stayed on topic it would have been a better video.

It degrades and digresses when it goes into rudiments, modern drummer video clips demonstrating nothing that has to do with a shuffle, and civil war drummers. Huh? And the topic is origins of the shuffle groove?

He's all wrong on Bo Diddley: that groove is NOLA second line 3-2 clave. And I'm not sure his labels of all the shuffles he demo's are correct. The first one sounds more like a swing groove than a shuffle. The Texas Shuffle should feature both hands playing same sticking and accents in unison: one on cymbal one on snare. And variations thereof. I didn't see any sorta Texas Shuffle in the demo.

So all in all it's a very forgettable video with some major flaws in descriptions and techniques.
 

Lee-Bro

Senior Member
I'm so disappointed in everyone right now. You all know Al Gore invented the shuffle, right before he invented the internet. :ROFLMAO:

*ducking from the bricks and eventual post deletion.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I get you now. But the back beat is on three so I wouldn't classify the specific Rosanna beat as a 16th note shuffle. It is definitely a half time shuffle.
With all due respect....I hope I'm not being an a-hole here...The backbeat is always on 2 and 4. When it's not counted in the accepted manner, yes, the backbeat does appear to be on beat 4, but in reality, it's actually beat 2. One of the accepted ways to count triplets is... one-trip-let, two-trip-let, three-trip-let, four-trip-let. Not 1 2 3 4 5 6. I did that for quite a long time. It's easier to communicate when everyone is on the same page verbiage-wise.

If you count Roseanna using the above triplet verbiage you will see that the backbeat lands on beat 2 and 4. All shuffles are in triplet time with the backbeat on 2 and 4. Triplet time counts to 4 and repeats. There's exceptions, where there's no backbeat, like the flat tire shuffle, but it's still counted by triplets.

Now 6/8 time is counted in groups of 6, not groups of 3. I'm pretty sure. I leave that open for corrections/debate.

Please forgive the soapbox treatment.
 
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MrPockets

Gold Member
With all due respect....I hope I'm not being an a-hole here...The backbeat is always on 2 and 4. When it's not counted in the accepted manner, yes, the backbeat does appear to be on beat 4, but in reality, it's actually beat 2. One of the accepted ways to count triplets is... one-trip-let, two-trip-let, three-trip-let, four-trip-let. Not 1 2 3 4 5 6. I did that for quite a long time. It's easier to communicate when everyone is on the same page verbiage-wise.

If you count Roseanna using the above triplet verbiage you will see that the backbeat lands on beat 2 and 4. All shuffles are in triplet time with the backbeat on 2 and 4. Triplet time counts to 4 and repeats. There's exceptions, where there's no backbeat, like the flat tire shuffle, but it's still counted by triplets.

Now 6/8 time is counted in groups of 6, not groups of 3. I'm pretty sure. I leave that open for corrections/debate.

Please forgive the soapbox treatment.
So the bridge is double time?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The meat of the song is a half time shuffle, so triplet time, and the bridge is in 2 or 4/4...duple time, if we are referring to the same part. I'm referring to the part..."been a year since she went away"....or something like that. More like a pre-chorus. That section is in straight 2/4 or it could be 4/4 if I am not mistaken. That section is not triplet time, and represents a time signature change. Then it changes back to triplet time for the chorus, so another time signature change back to the original.
 
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