THE HEEL TOE THREAD

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
slide technique is VERY different...

here is a quick vid i made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jfa_MQgBy0


if you look at my post about 5 down I demo the heel toe in my vids... Its called heel toe because the MOTION is made with the heel.. not because your using your heel.

i talk about head and pedal tensions in my vids.. but i would start with a tight batter skin and your pedals at half to 3/4 tension to start... as you get the technique and start playing faster.. turn it up as your muscles develope
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
This is the technique that is stole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHqkxHaQ-bI
You don't need a longboard, small feet or a high end pedal. I play this technique on an old Pearl P-100. Google that pedal. That is not a high-end pedal.

Not sure what you meant by stole? also. that is NOT what i am explaining in my video at all lol.

its similar.. but a totally different technique.. If he were to pull his feet back a few inches it would be very close..
 
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CheeseCake95

Junior Member
I found this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJrp3nRL0c ... pretty good looking pedals, much like a rip off of Axis. Had a go at double strokes *not heel-toe* for the first proper time today, and it seems with enough practice to get the grasp of the technique, I can probably push over my limit of about 285 - 290 bpm in 16ths. I still kind of struggling to get the motion correct on my left foot as its a pumping type of feel compared to the heel-toe when i drive my heel down.
 

lefty2

Platinum Member
That looks like he's doing the slide technique. That seems like it would be hard to do. At least for me.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
Wow, that guy has remarkable foot technique.
Yes, looks like slide (which I'm poor at).
Great video for speed reference - I've bookmarked it. Thanks for sharing!
 

CheeseCake95

Junior Member
Wow, that guy has remarkable foot technique.
Yes, looks like slide (which I'm poor at).
Great video for speed reference - I've bookmarked it. Thanks for sharing!
the slide feels completely strange for me, maybe thats why i can never do it right. No probs, a good video though. More interested at those pedals as they seem pretty good
 
I found this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJrp3nRL0c ... pretty good looking pedals, much like a rip off of Axis. Had a go at double strokes *not heel-toe* for the first proper time today, and it seems with enough practice to get the grasp of the technique, I can probably push over my limit of about 285 - 290 bpm in 16ths. I still kind of struggling to get the motion correct on my left foot as its a pumping type of feel compared to the heel-toe when i drive my heel down.
He's in a few other videos doing some stupid fast double stroke rolls using home made longboard pedals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emPxFITdKUw in his flip-flops
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
That's impressive, but that sliding fore and aft movement is not for me. I know musicians are fond of saying "there's no right or wrong way" to do something, but if you're using 5 times more energy to get the same result as the next guy, well . . . .
 

cDark3r

Member
Re: Videos of Heel toe bass method

i tried the heel toe technique and its working with my right foot but not the left. Good technique indeed but not for me. And those who say that can play with heel up faster thant the video exercise, normal, the video is for learning, not showing off :p

out of thread----
I have 2 bass drum, should i get a double pedal or 2 separate pedals? because if i want a decent pedal (what im planning to do because my pedals feel horrible, they are the stock pedals) like exemple iron cobra that is around 130$ new, its 2 time for me so 260$ plus tax so its kinda costy. if i buy a double pedal , i will be able to play with 1 or two bass drum depending on how i feel, but is it more costy than 2 pedals?
Found this thread: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?70992-How-To-Make-2-Singles-From-Your-Double
I thought you might like it.
A double pedal is cheaper than two singles right?
 

CheeseCake95

Junior Member
I personally find that medium/loose spring tension is the way to go with my Pearl Demons when doing heel toe (no need to work as hard). I also have the beater a bit closer (maybe 3 inches) as I'm more interested in speed- not volume (I do use triggers though).
Fair enough, it's been quite a while now with some decent practice I can hold 260 for a lot longer than before, maxed out at 320bpm with short bursts. What's your thoughts on beaters ? I notice some folks have full beater length while some has it pretty low down and short if you get what I mean.

Just sharing the stoke with the pic thats all :)
 

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beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
I've had my beaters long and short.. right now I'm somewhere in the middle to shorter side.

Longer- more power in the hit as it has more time to swing like a pendulum. shorter it seems to whip back faster, and i have to push down with my foot harder.

I will adjust the beater length if i get double triggers (i'll get them when its too long, or too short i guess) or if it starts to sound like gallop,

for all settings its good to mark where you are, change it and play, change it the other way, see what you like. I have had every possible combo on my demons and axis so when things go out of wack I can usually bring it back
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
I've had my beaters long and short.. right now I'm somewhere in the middle to shorter side.

Longer- more power in the hit as it has more time to swing like a pendulum. shorter it seems to whip back faster, and i have to push down with my foot harder.

I will adjust the beater length if i get double triggers (i'll get them when its too long, or too short i guess) or if it starts to sound like gallop,

for all settings its good to mark where you are, change it and play, change it the other way, see what you like. I have had every possible combo on my demons and axis so when things go out of wack I can usually bring it back

That's an interesting insight. And I know what you mean by gallop, especially since you play heel-toe. I found the other night that I should probably play wearing shoes because that little gap between every four notes seemed to disappear. But this beater length idea is something I must try now.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
the distance from head, spring tension, beater height, beater angle, they all have to do with the gallop

I did find lowering it helped me a ton though.
 

JasperGTR

Senior Member
I can confirm that lowering the beater works like a charm. Thanks for the tip.
I'm going to try this when I play next...

Does it change the sound a lot? (obviously head tension and type would affect that - just asking if retuning was involved or mic sound changes, etc...)
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
I'm going to try this when I play next...

Does it change the sound a lot? (obviously head tension and type would affect that - just asking if retuning was involved or mic sound changes, etc...)

No.. but most guys who heel toe trigger because its pretty hard to do 240bpm+ and consistant. also double bass at that speed sounds pretty bad not triggered in my opinion.

but as far as tuning I leave it the same. Now.. don't do this if your hits are even.. and also. if they are too low you run into issues.. I have just found a few tricks over the years to try when things ARN"T working 100%
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
So, heel-toe with shoes... I found that I can play more consistently with shoes on. I used to find that I flammed a lot when I played barefoot, got a bit of a lead foot.

I also found that wearing a shoe with a bit of a heel helped as opposed to something like a Converse which is completely flat. Helps to get a real good rocking motion.

Noticed that some of the professionals playing heel-toe wear shoes while doing, such as John Longstreth of Origin and Franscesco Paoli. But I've heard so many people talk about how playing barefoot helps maintain a better control of the board. Most videos about the technique also show guys playing barefoot or with socks. Just thought I'd throw this out here if anyone finds they have a problem with getting their double strokes consistent with barefoot. Playing with shoes just might help you like it helped me.

Another thing I've done while developing my technique is a bit of a swivel technique worked into the motion. My toe is the pivot and I hit my heel once on the right side of the board and then once on the left side. My other leg does the same thing, so I'm swinging in one direction with every four beats, i.e. RHRTLHLT. Naturally, as i play faster, the "swivel" becomes less pronounced. But I find it's a good way to ensure that the second beat isn't much weaker than the first and also helps keep time when playing to a click.

As I play more, I really find that heel-toe is a legitimate technique, though some people say that it's a shortcut to playing fast double bass. Truth is, I played heel-toe the wrong way for a long time - flamming, weak hits, galloping. I didn't even realise it till I started recording my playing, it was quite easy with my e-drumkit and a DAW. I could analyse whether my hits were on the grid or not.

But even doing an audio recording can help you figure out whether your technique is off, which in my experience usually manifests itself as gaps between each pair of double hits - especially after the full RHRTLHLT sequence - rather than double bass that you would hear if playing heel up at the same tempo.

Trust me, if you're doing it right, it will sound exactly like playing heel up, especially if you're triggering. Even if you aren't triggering, there will only be a volume difference between the second stroke. The beats should be even.

In that regard, I think it's important to play heel-toe at slower tempos as much as higher tempos too, more important to get control than speed.

Just sharing my thoughts after a great practice session this morning. I'm not 100%, sometimes I miss notes, or a note is off the midi grid. But I'm getting there. And part of the reason for that is that I listen back to what I did during a session. Ears can play tricks on you, so do make recordings to double check that your heel-toe playing is even and the volume between strokes is as consistent as possible.

Oh, and do try shoes out for a change if you play barefoot. Or try out playing barefoot if you're playing with shoes and it isn't working for you. Also try out different types of shoes, I tried all my available pairs before settling on a pair of sneakers with a bit of a heel.
 
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