THE HEEL TOE THREAD

samthebeat

Silver Member
Re: Heel Toe Technique

dont believe him, vruk is a gimmick, you can play the technique without it the same, it does'nt make it any easier. Everyone i know who has one sells it realising it is a bit of a gimmick, which is probably why it has never caught on.

Im not saying it is useless, it does work and does what it says, it does add loads of power to your pedal, but it does not make heel toe easy, it's just as difficult to master it with one as it is without one....so in conclusion save your 60 bucks and buy some drum sticks, or some new shoes.
 

DWfan20005

Senior Member
Re: Heel Toe Technique

dont believe him, vruk is a gimmick, you can play the technique without it the same, it does'nt make it any easier. Everyone i know who has one sells it realising it is a bit of a gimmick, which is probably why it has never caught on.

Im not saying it is useless, it does work and does what it says, it does add loads of power to your pedal, but it does not make heel toe easy, it's just as difficult to master it with one as it is without one....so in conclusion save your 60 bucks and buy some drum sticks, or some new shoes.
Thanx for the advice, are there any pedals that are particulary good for heel toe besides the obvious. "Axis Pedals cause of their long footboard"- average drummer giving autopilot answer.
 

dea

Senior Member
Re: Heel Toe Technique

There was a recent response stating the vruk ( www.vrukpedal.com ) was a gimmick. Forgive me, but I must respond because you must understand the truth by someone who owns a vruk and has been playing for going on 30years.

Do not listen to this. That is as far from the truth as one can get. It is not a cheater tool. I don't know where this guy/girl got they're info, but it is completely incorrect. There are skills you can acquire with the vruk that you cannot perform on a standard pedal. Period. Can you implement a pressure stroke ( emphasizing the heel ) on a standard pedal? Nope... You absolutely cannot. Why? Well, it has to do with the fancy spring at the heel. Can you leave your entire foot on the pedal at all times, yet perform a heel-toe rolls? Nope... I bet you can't. Does this tool/technique do absolutely any of the work for you? Nope... You are in complete control and it will sit there like a bump on a log unless you learn to master it and even when you master it, it will still not do anything for you.

They call this the tool for the masters for a very good reason. Not everyone is ready, has the patience, or is open minded enough. However, you don't need to have master skills, but you must have a master's attitude toward something so unconventional, yet so revolutionary to be able to accept it and be patient with it. I can tell you that if you do have the attitude, it will change your playing forever. It changed mine.
 

samthebeat

Silver Member
Re: Heel Toe Technique

definition of gimmick -

"In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature."

I did not say it was a cheater pedal, like I said it does not make Heel any Easier, DWfan wants to perfect heel toe, Vruk is not necersarry for that to be achieved.

By the way, i owned a vruk hence why i have something to say about it.
 

dea

Senior Member
Re: Heel Toe Technique

Sorry for being so abrasive with my response. Opinions are wonderful and held highly in my book, but it just bothers me horribly when untrue claims are made.

Take it from a drummer that has played for almost 30years and is also restless and never satisfied with the status-quo, but at the same time very pragmatic ( I'm an Engineer, what can I say ). I am always hunting for better ways to do the same thing. Its an obsession, I must admit, but it keeps me sharp.

However, all I can do is talk talk talk. So, instead - I challenge you to challenge yourself. Do you have the patience? Do you have the devotion to play better? Do you have the ability to shed the status-quo? Do you have the ability to shelf ingrained traditions? Do you have just enough self contempt to challenge yourself technically? If so, then be ready to take your bass drum playing to a whole new level.
 

Axis27

Member
Heel toe!?!?

Can someone tell me if when you play heel toe does it go RH LH RT LT or RH RT LH LT. I have been trying to do it fast but it always comes out as 4 notes. Thanks in advance! -Joe Peters
 

Axis27

Member
Re: Heel toe!?!?

O yea...Can you also tell me how to improve on speed(play fast instead of just doubles) and indurance?
 

Raymond Bloom

Pioneer Member
Re: Heel toe!?!?

if you want to play singles - rh lh rt lt, if you want to play doubles - rh rt lh lt. control, endurance and speed comes with practice, it's really that simple! don't rush, you will eventually gain more controll, power, speed etc
 
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h3r3tic

Silver Member
Re: Heel toe!?!?

if you want to play singles - rh lh rt lt, if you want to play doubles - rh rt lh lt. control, endurance and speed comes with practic, it's really that simple! don't rush, you will eventually gain more controll, power, speed etc
I agree. Speed will come in time don't worry about it. just keep practising it :)
 

SEVNT7

Senior Member
Re: Heel toe!?!?

Heel-Toe warm up. Ex. is played one foot at a time starting w/ the left foot. Play 16th notes w/ your foot(heel-toe) while rolling 32nd notes( double stroke roll) w/ hands. Play 4 bars( 4/4 time) with each foot, 4 x,s =32 total bars. Then shorten it to 2 bars each foot=16 bars. Then 1 bar each foot= 16 bars. Then 3 beats (or 3/4 time) 16 bars. Then 2 beats each foot 16 bars (4/4). then 3/8 time.or (1 & a half beats). 16 x's. Then 1 beat each foot,16 bars(4/4 time). Then the last is 2 16th notes ( 1/2 a beat) 16 bars. After doing this for a while, try your HL, HR, TL, TR. single stoke roll. I do this about 3-4 days a week as a warm up to further work on my foot & hand technique. Another thing you could work on is Moeller triplets ( down, tap, up ). with your feet. Do this the same way you would do it w/ your hands. One foot at a time, both feet together, and intermixed (R-down, L-tap, R-tap, L-up, R-up, L-down) Or (R-down, L-up, R-tap, L-down, R-up, L-tap ) and so on. .....Later..T
 

Tim Waterson

WFD ACEDRUMMER
Re: Heel Toe Technique

I don't think getting your foot used to the heel-toe technique a good idea.
Heel toe is just another technqie there are only 3 heel down, heel up, and heeltoe everything else is a motoion and variations of these...
I think for drummers to rely on heel and toe and use it as a cruutch would not be great idea.
But to rely on ANY technque would also not be a good thing....LOL you should be able to play the drums on ANY set in Any configuration.......
Just my 3 cents
Tim
 

Skacatz

Senior Member
Do any of ya'll feel that some pedals are better than others for heel-toe. I've used Axis pedals that seem easier than other brands. I've got a Gretsch pedal that I don't have such an easy time with.

What's your feelings?
 

SleepyDave

Junior Member
I agree the Axis Pedals seem easier for me as well. I have a size 12 shoe and can play heel toe on most pedals, however I find some pedals allow more efficient motion. I find the most effieicent way to get the most power, speed and consistency (at least for me) when doing heel to is to play what I call real Heel Toe. What I mean by this is I am actually making the first hit with my heel only (my toes are at least an inch off the foot board). As soon as the first hit is complete the heel bounces off the board upward and the ball/toe part of my foot naturally swings downward making the second hit. In order to do this with eliminator or Iron cobra pedals I have to move my foot beyond the heel plate which means my toes are either eating the chain or I curl them up and use the ball of the foot only (awkward but I have gotten used to it). I find this more powerful/efficient than using the ball/toe of my foot to make both the heel and toe hits although this works also. On the Axis pedals the foot board is longer and has more room making this easier. I imagine the variable drive and the beater forward design also help make the Axis pedals easier to tailor to your liking. The Axis are nice, however with some practice you should be able to do this technique on almost any pedal. I personally no longer use Axis due to their set screw mechanisms which tend to loosen and do not seem as robust as some others, I do however use their Universal drive shaft. Have not found anything better yet. Also working on constructing "Long boards" for my Eliminators. I will post information about this once I am finished if anyone is interested. What I have in mind should be adaptable to most conventional pedals also.
 

ajgdrums722

Member
Heel Up & Down

Hey guys -

I'm doing a lot of double bass stuff currently (playing doubles, paradiddles, inverts, etc. ALA Lang, Donati, etc.). In Lang's videos, he stresses the importance of playing both heel up and heel down for dynamic levels. I agree with this philosophy and have been trying to incorporate both styles into my playing.

My question is...how do you divide the time up? I've read a few posts that have stated that practicing heel down will help you play both heel down AND heel up, while heel up really doesn't have the same impact. The first time I started playing heel down it burnt, and I have to work harder and concentrate more. I don't really feel that at all when I play heel up.

Is heel down that much better for the development of your legs? Should I spend the majority of my time (practicing) heel down, to try to strengthen my legs, aka also helping my heel up playing?

I hope what I'm saying makes sense, and thanks in advance for anyone who can help me out here. Basically I'm just trying to practice as efficient as I can. If practicing heel down helps development more than practicing heel up, then I'll devote the majority of my time to the heel down method (in practice anyway), to further my development.
 

spw

Member
Re: Heel Up & Down

Dividing practice time up is a question that comes up a lot. YOU have to find what works best for you, also you need to analyze your weaknesses, and work on them till they are no longer weaknesses, also you need to maintain your strengths.

Look at all techniques as tools for your toolbox, you have your basic main tools that you use for everyjob, then you have your specialty tools that are needed on rare occasions.

Develop a system to incorperate what you are trying to learn, say you are practicing paradiddles with your feet, you mainly play heel up, but you want to add heel down, you have 30 mins to work on these tools, you can do 15/15, 20/10, 25/5, depending on your needs. You can put together grooves with the foot patterns and constantly switch between the 2 techs and practice changing the dynamic level that each tech offers.

If you can make practice fun, you will practice better, and look forward to it.
While dry practicing has to be done, when you can make your practice in a musical setting, and with your imagination, adding pieces, removing pieces all around the pattern you are practicing, then you also learn to add it dynamically and that will more quickly make you in tune with it's practicle application.
 

Wavelength

Platinum Member
Re: Heel Up & Down

Yes, you should practice heel down. It will help isolate and develop ankle movement, which in turn gives you more control when playing heel up.
 
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