THE HEEL TOE THREAD

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Chip

Guest
The only way I'm currently using heel-toe is for a quick RR when it's too fast for my heel-up doubles. Which is rarely, I barely use them.

I agree with Jeff, heel-toe is the easiest. That being said... I don't like it, it seems inefficient and uncomfortable. Now (with some help from Finn) I can see what Virgil is doing when he does double strokes. I paid attention to my foot stroke (doubles), and I do the same motion, just not as exaggurated. Basically, do a normal, full leg stroke. Do this a few times. Now, snap the ankle down on the way up, then bring down the normal leg stroke (bad exaplanation, but it's the basic movement). It's been giving me more consistent doubles, too. I'm not doing this just because Virgil does (well, a little bit, look how much control he has!), but because it feels more natural to me. Spend a few weeks/months practicing and researching different techniques, and find the most comfortable one for you.

Now I have to get a bigger mirror so I can see exactly what I'm doing without craning my neck to see with the little one I have now...
 

JWM

Senior Member
For me, I practice accents on doubles both ways (or any series of notes for that matter). For accenting the first note, the heel comes down first, for accenting the second it's the toe and then the heel.

Why only be good at one way? I think it's just about where you want to place accents: the heel is the accent (which for me doesn't actually play the pedal because of my foot size and current pedal; rather, it hits the plate and acts as a "stop" at certain tempos) and the toe is the non-accent.

As for Virgil, you'll notice he primarily does reverse doubles (RLLRRLLRR); this is because he never does heel/toe. Personally, I think this is limiting. Both heel/toe and toe/heel, if you will, should be practiced so as to be as versatile as possible.

Maybe some time I can post a youtube of my foot technique...
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
JWM said:
For me, I practice accents on doubles both ways (or any series of notes for that matter). For accenting the first note, the heel comes down first, for accenting the second it's the toe and then the heel.

Why only be good at one way? I think it's just about where you want to place accents: the heel is the accent (which for me doesn't actually play the pedal because of my foot size and current pedal; rather, it hits the plate and acts as a "stop" at certain tempos) and the toe is the non-accent.

As for Virgil, you'll notice he primarily does reverse doubles (RLLRRLLRR); this is because he never does heel/toe. Personally, I think this is limiting. Both heel/toe and toe/heel, if you will, should be practiced so as to be as versatile as possible.

Maybe some time I can post a youtube of my foot technique...
I'd love to check out your video, bro.

I understand where you're coming from. Frankly, I use all singles when playing with a band. I have so many things I'm working on that I have to prioritize them and doing hours of doubles with the feet is not a top priority. I wish I had 8 hrs a day to practice! 3 isn't enough.
 

JWM

Senior Member
Jeff Almeyda said:
I'd love to check out your video, bro.

I understand where you're coming from. Frankly, I use all singles when playing with a band. I have so many things I'm working on that I have to prioritize them and doing hours of doubles with the feet is not a top priority. I wish I had 8 hrs a day to practice! 3 isn't enough.
Cool... yeah, I'll try to get some vid up pretty soon here. I look forward to your feedback.

And I'm actually just working these things on single pedal right now. Like you, I have to prioritize my time, but I think it's cool to do that, because you end up working on things that are most important to playing music.

Cheers.
 

morbius25

Senior Member
skippy said:
ok you all no what they say about guys with big feet...they cant play the heel toe thing...so i have size 12 shoes and a dw 7000 pedal anyone who can help me leard this will be greatly admired...please help.
thanks in advance


skippy
I had this friend in high school, was my drummer in my band, and my best friend. When he was born his feet did something weird so when he walked his feet were like on 45's all the time. So he wanted to learn double base, and believe it or not, this dude was the best I had ever heard (small town) anyways, thats the way he played, on 45's. Now if I could get it to work for me, then sweet cuppin cakes I would rock, but..
 

Sausabe

Junior Member
skippy said:
ok you all no what they say about guys with big feet...they cant play the heel toe thing...so i have size 12 shoes and a dw 7000 pedal anyone who can help me leard this will be greatly admired...please help.
thanks in advance


skippy
Size 14, man. And it is hard to do heel-toe style. I just slide my foot across the pedal when I do it. It takes a while to get used to but when you get it down, it feels normal. The hard part of sliding is timing it so you can reuse the 'recoil' for lack of a better (cooler) word.

EDIT: Also learn to play with your feet at an angle, as has been said, but I reiterate because it is help for peeps with big feet.
 

komodo

Senior Member
Heel toe order!?

Okay,so i have the heel toe technique down and find it helps my playin a lot,BUT i would like to see if it could improv my constant double bass playing. Therefore i ask which is the best way to play it with two feet?
R = right foot, L = Left foot, H = heel, T = toe

Is it:

RH,LH,RT,LT or RH,RT,LH,LT?

Thnx for any help
 
C

Chip

Guest
Re: Heel toe order!?

Basically, you're asking about double strokes or single strokes. If you can already do doubles with your feet, well, doubles will most likely work for you with heel-toe. Singles can feel pretty unnatural and strange with heel-toe, though.

Doubles with heel-toe is very commonplace (I myself can't do it, amongst everything else), that's what you'll catch a lot of people doing.

All in all, do what feels best for you.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
Re: Heel toe order!?

Chip's got it.

Doing singles with heel-toe sounds like crap (IMO, of course) and it's very difficult to coordinate with the hands during an actual groove. A BIG waste of time for a gimmicky technique.

My advice is to work on heel down for singles. Practicing heel-down will greatly improve your heel-up singles.

Use heel-toe for doubles.

Disclaimer: I myself use heel-up for doubles (ala Virgil) and it sounds and feels much better to me than heel-toe.

Second disclaimer: Doubles on double kick are not very applicable to real-life playing. Practice them at the risk of not working on other, more useful techniques.
 

sir_nooby

Junior Member
Re: Videos of Heel toe bass method

larkin42 said:
I was wondering if the heel-toe technique is any faster than playing heel up, i watched this video and i can play anything he is playing on there and more, playing heel up.

If it is a faster way of play, I will give it a shot and try it out.
Same, I can do tripplets faster than the joker in the video using the heel up technique. Seems to work well for me but this heel-top concept has interested me.....
 

komodo

Senior Member
Re: Heel toe order!?

Thnx for the advice,but i do find heel toe more comfortable for two notes in succession such as on folowd by offbeat bass at a quik pace. THis is probably as i havent been drumming too long though so leg muscles havent developed or something for heel up speed :p Thnx anyways
 

Tutin

Pioneer Member
skippy said:
ok you all no what they say about guys with big feet...they cant play the heel toe thing...so i have size 12 shoes and a dw 7000 pedal anyone who can help me leard this will be greatly admired...please help.
thanks in advance


skippy
Well I have size 14 feet and have no trouble doing heel toe.

First of all, take the toe stops off the pedals and get your feet as far up as you can. If that doesn't work for you, which it should then try moving your foot so that the heel is off the end of the pedal and then try they motion. Heel toe is incredibly easy.
 

Jrdnhunting

Junior Member
Re: Heel Toe

Johnny_Stacks said:
if you got that big of a foot i dont no if you could be able to do heel toe man lol. im a size 9 and i have trouble doing it. i have to put my foot off to the side to do it

- John

EVERYBODY LISTEN

TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF

and if you have a chain drive pedal, put ur foot really high up on the footboard and its ok to push on the chain

i have size 13[us] shoes and i can do it great with my right foot and im getting better with my left

and dont do heel-toe without music

always be listening to something or air-drumming something

it helps alot if you wanna stay even
 

h3r3tic

Silver Member
Heel Toe (Spring tension)

Would it be ok putting to spring tension to maximum like really tight) ?
I seem to find that when using heel toe on the double pedal I´m getting week strokes...
I gues that maybe it´s because the spring tension is very loose

What do you guys think?
 
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DrummerMom

Guest
Re: Heel Toe (Spring tension)

I used medium spring tension on my pedal.
 

LimaBeans

Member
Re: Heel Toe (Spring tension)

h3r3tic said:
Would it be ok putting to spring tension to maximum like really tight) ?
I seem to find that when using heel toe on the double pedal I´m getting week strokes...
I gues that maybe it´s because the spring tension is very loose

What do you guys think?
I'm not sure if you mean heel/toe (Derrik Pope) or up/down (Jojo Mayer...I still have no idea of the correct name for this technique). For up/down, it works at all tensions, but I can player longer without getting stressed or exausted with low tension. The best thing to do is to try it yourself. Experiment with spring tensions and see what works for you best. If it's weak at all tensions, then the problem is probaly with your technique and not the equipment.
 

h3r3tic

Silver Member
Re: Heel Toe (Spring tension)

Hey guys thanks for the posts.
This morning I started with a Heel Toe exercise for 20 mins with the springs on medium tension and it worked lovely :)

Thanks guys
 

Raymond Bloom

Pioneer Member
Re: Heel Toe (Spring tension)

Jojo Mayer has the spring tension very loose, John Blackwell likes very tight spring tension, it really depends on what have you used? The way you set the spring tension normally is the way you would want 'em for heel-toe!
 
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