is the heel toe technique done on the hihat?
heres a quick vid I made of Heel toe motion.JWM said:After some investigation of the H/T method myself by way of the Pope vid and Tim's WFD vid (and others circulating on YouTube), I'm currently unable to do it with my current DW pedal. I have a size 11 foot, and even at an angle I cannot get enough leverage to properly execute the heel stroke. I'll have to wait until I get a longboard.
For the time being, I'm using the Steve Smith "controlled release" approach, which Pope also describes. It's not quite H/T, but it is the natural motion for accenting a downstroke or first note of a double, etc. In fact, I find that it's the obvious motion to make for playing first note accents, which helps for dynamic bass drum playing (I'm currently only using single pedal). It ends up mirroring the motion of the hands... almost the Moeller technique for the feet (whereas H/T might be the feet equivalent of the freehand technique). For controlled release, the toes essentially stay on the footboard, in a "resting" position as the leg drops for the first accented note (which I find to almost be a "flat" stroke). I've seen exercises for this that notate "L" for leg stroke and "U" or "T" for heel up/toe stroke.
Any thoughts, Tim?
Tim--Tim Waterson said:
This is the part that confuses drummers.JWM said:Tim--
Thanks very much for that. I just have to say man... your openness in the community in helping us with our feet has been a real blessing...
After watching the vid, I feel that that is essentially what I'm doing. I find it easier NOT to start with the beater against the head personally, but like you described, I am getting that initial second hit as well... so that's a good sign.
What I'm also getting is that you're NOT doing an actual note with the HEEL... i.e. the heel isn't an isolated stroke like Pope describes it (and I'm going to trust yours as you have the record!). Your toes stay on the board the whole time. I couldn't really see the length of the board, but when you backed your foot up, it actually looks as though your heel ISN'T on the board, am I correct? If that's the case, then this proves that the heel in H/T is more of a MOTION rather than an actual stroke? And the toes are in fact doing every stroke?
Okay... that does clear up the confusion. It feels "officially" cleared up now that you've said it!Tim Waterson said:This is the part that confuses drummers.
YES My HEEL is making the stroke.
when I slide past the footplate the upper part of my heel still makes contact.
when I do my WFD doubles the heels are controlling the strokes and the toes just remain stationary.
At the begiining of the clip I am rocking me heel and toe in a constant release style similar to Steve Smith although Steve Smith goes Toe first and then heel.
Freddie told me and he was very adament about Steve doing it that way?
Hope this explains the confusion.
I'd like to second this!baddrumming said:Thank You Tim
I feel very humbled to have had you answer my question (the man with the worlds fastest feet). Just being able to communicate with you i feel is an honour. So once again thank you.
P.S The video was also a massive help.
What you described was also my experience with a size 11 foot on a standard DW pedal. There's no way for my heel to actually play the pedal itself (at least my entire heel). And as you also described--timfel said:Hi Derrick,
Hope you're getting better. Came across your heel-toe video yesterday and thought it was fantastic. It had a perfect answer to a problem (getting fast doubles) that I've had for ages, which hasn't really got much better despite a lot of practice. Your method made perfect sense and your teaching style is superb, thank you very much.
Full of enthusiasm, I rushed to my kit to try this new method which I was convinced was the answer to all my prayers. Got sat down at the kit, everything in place, ran through it in my head, all ready to practice this new motion.
I raised my heel as instructed, dropped it for the first stroke... nothing. Nada! My heel hit the heelplate which is not hinged and made not a sound - the pedal didn't operate. Toe was fine, but the heel was silent. I thought this must be what all those guys mean when they say their feet are too big. Tried ramming my toes into the chain drive, but that didn't sound right. I thought all those guys who said it didn't work unless you had small feet must be right! Very disappointed, I retired for the night.
And then I remembered to trust you! You said it didn't matter what size your feet are so I thought about it and went back again. I found it - eureka! When you drop your heel, you're not actually operating the pedal with your heel as I mistakenly thought, but the action of dropping your heel causes your foot to drop and the pedal is operated actually with the middle of the foot. So your heel does hit the floor and that doesn't make a noise, but your foot presses the pedal and that does. I think the name is misleading - I was taking it literally trying to operate the pedal with my heel, rather than feeling the motion and almost letting the pedal operate itself. Having grasped that, it all seems to work very well now!
Would you agree with my findings? Maybe this will help all those people who think their feet are too big. There's a lesson there - trust the teacher!
That's essentially what I find myself doing. Or it also may still be a toe stroke, but a "downstroke" movement for it with the middle portion of the foot making contact with the pedal as well (it almost feels like a "flat" stroke to me!). Some seem to define that as the "constant release" technique that Steve Smith is known for using (and I believe JoJo Mayer does this as well). Tim Waterson's explanation seems to almost fall somewhere in between....but the action of dropping your heel causes your foot to drop and the pedal is operated actually with the middle of the foot.
Feet size doesn't matter, you can do heel-toe on particulary any bass drum pedal with any size of your feet if executed the right way!AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken said:Okay, so I have to know: does my freak size 13 foot condemn me to singles for my whole life? Or is the Axis longboard big enough for that?
Does anyone have a video or something that shows the proper way to do the heel toe method for playing the bass drum?
I'm not sure that the way that i am trying it is the proper way.
Any help will be much appreciated(sp).