The Drummer Is Always To Blame For Sound Issues

[Jeff Graw]

Have a look starting at 4:04

At 4:04 the sound is not "aggressive," quite the opposite.

 

[Andy]

Sounds like a lack of sound engineering competence to me.

 

[Drummingdog]

One of the most challenging things, as a drummer, is to play quietly with good energy.

I like to call it keeping the intensity up

 

[mattmc3287]

Sounds like a lack of sound engineering competence to me.

Agreed. In conjunction with the inability to accept help or feedback and a venue that is in no way shape or form outfitted for live music. A stage alone does not a music venue make. Hopefully the owner will heed the advice of the numerous musicians who have played there in the last few months and do something to treat the room.

 

[Otto]

At 4:04 the sound is not "aggressive," quite the opposite.

ahhhh..there's the rub...it is VERY aggressive to my ears...and driving...but in the low dynamic range...like a burrowing insect aggressively seeking the soft inner core of the song.

i would say that ending movement which is very loud is not as aggressive...but laid back and almost drowsy.

trying to quantify that evaluation a bit...i hear aggressive as on/ahead of the beat with greater integral composition relative to the overall song...not just following where the song is going but 'driving' it elsewhere via its composition.(that is, aggressive is not just dynamics to me...and actually I find dynamics to be the least defining of an aggressive composition...just the most commonly used spice)

Like the words 'hip' and 'pocket', semantics vary by culture and creed.

 

[Syncopated_1]

My rock band played our first full gig a few weeks back. The venue has recently completed massive renovation to add a stage, a second bar, a huge dance floor, and a couple more bathrooms. What was not included in the renovations was any kind of sound treatment to the room in which the stage is located. This room is probably 2500-3000 sq ft with 20ft metal ceiling. The walls are cinder block and the floor is concrete. There is also no PA equipment provided by the venue, just lights. We were the first full band to play in this room and it was the first our first time running our full PA setup in a little over a year. Long story short....it was a nightmare trying to get a decent mix. I muffled everything with tape (including cymbals) to the point that there was little to no tone differentiation between toms and cymbals which is exactly what you want when you spend thousands of dollars on gear and hundreds of hours practicing and tuning. Even still, the guitar player (also my brother) was constantly throwing around passive aggressive comments about how loud the drums are and that we wont be able to get the vocals loud enough without feedback (while simultaneously refusing all of my offers to help adjust levels and EQ). We were able to get a halfway decent sound after the first few songs. at least we got the vocals to come through nice and string anyway, the band sounded a bit muffled and everything but my snare was pretty much muted out front. Whatever, it was a good show and I was happy we got the vocals to cut through because that's really the most important thing.

Fast forward to last night. We were all at my house getting the practice room put back together and decided to try a different setup. Recently we have been running in ears for practice but it just hasn't been quite what we were hoping (because, you know, the drums are just too loud) So, we tried going back to the old school method of putting everything through the mains. I was exhausted and not really feeling practice as I have been rehearsing and gigging my butt off the last couple months, so I only set up hats and ride with one up and one down and played about 30% of the volume I normally do when we practice. Basically just holding tempo and the back beat. Guess what? Still couldn't hear the bass and now we couldn't hear the vocals either. I just sat there grinning whilst watching my brother fumble around trying to adjust the board having inadvertently proven that my volume is not the sole culprit for our sound problems. Also, as we were sitting around chatting afterwards everyone agreed that they dont like practicing with me playing that way... "it changes the whole feel of our band and we need your energy" Oh reeeeaaaalllly? Ya dont say...

Anything concrete or hard walls with no treatment ricochets high frequencies everywhere and is very difficult to deal with other than laying back. More and more clubs are building out the space for the audience (bar tabs $$$$) and leave concrete for the musicians. I have noticed this trend over the last 10 years.

 

[A J]

My rock band played our first full gig a few weeks back. The venue has recently completed massive renovation to add a stage, a second bar, a huge dance floor, and a couple more bathrooms. What was not included in the renovations was any kind of sound treatment to the room in which the stage is located. This room is probably 2500-3000 sq ft with 20ft metal ceiling. The walls are cinder block and the floor is concrete. There is also no PA equipment provided by the venue, just lights. We were the first full band to play in this room and it was the first our first time running our full PA setup in a little over a year. Long story short....it was a nightmare trying to get a decent mix. I muffled everything with tape (including cymbals) to the point that there was little to no tone differentiation between toms and cymbals which is exactly what you want when you spend thousands of dollars on gear and hundreds of hours practicing and tuning. Even still, the guitar player (also my brother) was constantly throwing around passive aggressive comments about how loud the drums are and that we wont be able to get the vocals loud enough without feedback (while simultaneously refusing all of my offers to help adjust levels and EQ). We were able to get a halfway decent sound after the first few songs. at least we got the vocals to come through nice and string anyway, the band sounded a bit muffled and everything but my snare was pretty much muted out front. Whatever, it was a good show and I was happy we got the vocals to cut through because that's really the most important thing.

Fast forward to last night. We were all at my house getting the practice room put back together and decided to try a different setup. Recently we have been running in ears for practice but it just hasn't been quite what we were hoping (because, you know, the drums are just too loud) So, we tried going back to the old school method of putting everything through the mains. I was exhausted and not really feeling practice as I have been rehearsing and gigging my butt off the last couple months, so I only set up hats and ride with one up and one down and played about 30% of the volume I normally do when we practice. Basically just holding tempo and the back beat. Guess what? Still couldn't hear the bass and now we couldn't hear the vocals either. I just sat there grinning whilst watching my brother fumble around trying to adjust the board having inadvertently proven that my volume is not the sole culprit for our sound problems. Also, as we were sitting around chatting afterwards everyone agreed that they dont like practicing with me playing that way... "it changes the whole feel of our band and we need your energy" Oh reeeeaaaalllly? Ya dont say...

A good, short-term solution to your band's problem is to not play that particular venue until the acoustics improve. I'm guessing other bands and DJs are having the same issue. Customers are also likely having trouble holding normal conversations in a room that's super boomy. I realize it's a nice venue, but is it worth the cost of your band?

 

[mattmc3287]

A good, short-term solution to your band's problem is to not play that particular venue until the acoustics improve. I'm guessing other bands and DJs are having the same issue. Customers are also likely having trouble holding normal conversations in a room that's super boomy. I realize it's a nice venue, but is it worth the cost of your band?

Indeed, good sir. I have heard every complaints from sound engineers, musicians, and crowd members alike about the sound at the venue. And, we have decided as a band that we will not play there again until he treats the room. It's just not worth it to have to set up, run, and tear down our entire PA system for pennies and be forced to fight with feedback issues all night because the venue is unwilling to do the bare minimum.

 

[mattmc3287]

Anything concrete or hard walls with no treatment ricochets high frequencies everywhere and is very difficult to deal with other than laying back. More and more clubs are building out the space for the audience (bar tabs $$$$) and leave concrete for the musicians. I have noticed this trend over the last 10 years.

It is truly incredible. This dude spent no telling how much money to renovate this space for (allegedly) the sole purpose of providing a music venue on "our side of the river". Yet, he did not once consider the acoustics of the room or the fact that a large portion of local bands do not have the necessary equipment or skill sets to run their own sound in the first place.

 

[BruceW]

When I first started playing with my guitar player 10 years ago, or so, he would only mic the kick and snare, and use an overhead. He would complain about my cymbals.

Over time, I talked him into mic-ing the whole kit, and making sure it was present in the mix. After listening to other bands play in the same venues we played in, he relented, and figured out that it didn't exactly increase the over-all volume, but made the mix much fuller.

Fast forward a couple years, and the point in time when I won a cool new snare drum, one that is MUCH louder than my other snares. Again, with the complaints about volume. Another few years later, if I play the older snares, he notes that he's missing that snare in the mix. (He's also realized that I play with much less over-all volume than other drummers in our circuit and venues.)

Nowadays, I try and play a little softer in the soundcheck and first set, depending on the venue. He quickly chides me into hitting harder. Kinda funny, after all these years. (Admittedly, we do occasionally get some volume issues from that snare, more from it getting into my vocal mic than the mic on the drum itself.)

 

[brady]

I’ve been to a couple of jazz jams and was told my ride cymbal (Zildjian K Custom Special Dry) made hearing aids distort. I ended up playing brushes the whole time. Once the keyboardist complained my sweeping on a ballad was too loud. She was just using her keyboard speaker with no amp.

Oh man....I feel ya!!

The jazz band I used to play with full time was like that. The piano (keyboard actually) player/band leader routinely played through her crappy keyboard speaker. It took a while for her to incorporate a monitor for rehearsals and gigs...when we got a singer added to the group.

On top of that, I ALWAYS had to tell the bass player to turn up. My BRUSHES would drown him out!! I would watch his fingers and STILL not be able to hear his notes. On top of THAT, he played unnecessarily busy. It was like pulling teeth to get him to just play a walking bass pattern.

Whew... I thought I had forgotten all that. Thanks for listening Therapist Doug...