THE "BIG" JAZZ THREAD

Yes, there are just as many black jazz musicians as white. Besides what's race got to do with it? It's MUSIC - its sound, it doesn't matter who the person producing the sound is, at the end of the day it's simply music.
Who created the rule that jazz music was for certain types of people? Jazz music, heck music, is for everyone to enjoy big or small; fat or thin; black or white, etc.

Jazz music is appreciated by others - not just musicians and its very much alive. Just because it isn't mainstream and played constantly on every radio station or on MTV does NOT mean its dead.
Also, where did this idea of sophisticated people come in? I was always the under the impression that a sterotypical jazz cat, was a herion addict that kept saying 'baby' in every sentence with a raspy voice. Now that's hardly sophisticated and another representation of the crap that is - sterotypes.

As for challenging each other, jazz musicians just want the very best out of each other in order to achieve truly great music. It may seem like they challenge in each other to you or your teacher, but in actual fact they're just communicating with one another and asking for more.

Yes, alright, Jazz is hard to swallow for some people, but that's because they're not used to that freedom and intensity it can posess and to be frank - I can understand that. I wouldn't expect anyone who's a hardcore rap and hip hop listener to immediatley understand and love John Coltrane or Miles Davis. Jazz has to be introduced slowly to people so they can digest and understand it's history - people are either too impatient or too lazy these days to do it and sterotypes like that don't help whatsoever.

To quote Frank Zappa, 'Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny.'

I think that's the case today and here especially.
 
Re: -JAZZ-

Dr Drums said:
And then we talked about how wrong Jazz has gone
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Jazz is still being heard throughout North America. You just don't see it as often. Jazz is still evolving and creating new sounds as well. And just because it isn't mainstream, doesn't mean that it isn't prevalent in other countries. Take Europe for example; lots of jazz music there that's considered popular.
 
Most jazz is dead. there's some stuff there that's still worth checkin out but a lot of it seems pretty horrible. too much schoolin not enough foolin.
 
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tomgrosset said:
Jazz is still being heard throughout North America. You just don't see it as often. Jazz is still evolving and creating new sounds as well. And just because it isn't mainstream, doesn't mean that it isn't prevalent in other countries. Take Europe for example; lots of jazz music there that's considered popular.
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Hey listen, I don't know what your impression about Israel is, especially about Tel Aviv, the livest city here... But guess what, we don't live in the desert and ride camels...

I'm probably just as exposed to jazz as you are, and still I think the way i do...

There's a big Jazz scene around here, and if you know Avishai Cohen one of the today's greatest bassists , you'd also know he's from Israel..

Peace.
 
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Dr Drums said:
Hey listen, I don't know what your impression about Israel is, especially about Tel Aviv, the livest city here... But guess what, we don't live in the desert and ride camels...

I'm probably just as exposed to jazz as you are, and still I think the way i do...
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That was Tom's point. Jazz is much more prevalent in many countries other than the U.S.
 
Re: -JAZZ-

Dr Drums said:
Hey listen, I don't know what your impression about Israel is, especially about Tel Aviv, the livest city here... But guess what, we don't live in the desert and ride camels...

I'm probably just as exposed to jazz as you are, and still I think the way i do...

There's a big Jazz scene around here, and if you know Avishai Cohen one of the today's greatest bassists , you'd also know he's from Israel..

Peace.
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He wasnt implying that. You were the one talking about jazz being dead.
 
BringoDingo said:
Most jazz is dead. there's some stuff there that's still worth checkin out but a lot of it seems pretty horrible. too much schoolin not enough foolin.
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DOnt you need the "schoolin" before you start "foolin" though, if Im interpreting your statement correctly? Look at Berklee educated Jim Black. You have to learn the rules before you can break them.
 
I mostly listen to rock and its various forms but when I dip into the jazz it has to have some punk element in it like Jim Black (great example!). I hear lots of college kids playing jazz around here and it sounds like jazz dying. then I hear a great punk band down the street and find myself wishing the jazz kids had that gusto.
 
BringoDingo said:
I mostly listen to rock and its various forms but when I dip into the jazz it has to have some punk element in it like Jim Black (great example!). I hear lots of college kids playing jazz around here and it sounds like jazz dying. then I hear a great punk band down the street and find myself wishing the jazz kids had that gusto.
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Yes, but with all due respect, there is a great difference in college kids playing jazz and professional musicians who have the experience and knowledge of it. That's not to say all college kids can't play jazz, but the majority in college big bands and whatnot don't even listen to much jazz. Of course, there are still some who are greatly interested into it and are excellent at what they do. Anyway, my point is if you look at jazz today - played by musicians who are experienced and passionate about it - you'll see its very much alive.
 
i have been playing drums for 9years and am 16
I have been able to play brilliant rock for the past 5years
and even though i have been doing jazz from the start and spending all of my time at it....although i am good.......even when i am 60years old,i still wont be able to play half as much as you can

thats the difference in my opinion of rock and jazz

also....if you are a great jazz player, chances are you are a great all round drummer
if your a great rock player, chances are you can play fast and know grooves, but cannot play anything else with a bit of variaty
 
Since you've ressurrected this thread, I hope you went back and read through all 32 pages. I actually read through it at one point.
 
foursticks said:
Yes, there are just as many black jazz musicians as white. Besides what's race got to do with it? It's MUSIC - its sound, it doesn't matter who the person producing the sound is, at the end of the day it's simply music.
Who created the rule that jazz music was for certain types of people? Jazz music, heck music, is for everyone to enjoy big or small; fat or thin; black or white, etc.

Jazz music is appreciated by others - not just musicians and its very much alive. Just because it isn't mainstream and played constantly on every radio station or on MTV does NOT mean its dead.
Also, where did this idea of sophisticated people come in? I was always the under the impression that a sterotypical jazz cat, was a herion addict that kept saying 'baby' in every sentence with a raspy voice. Now that's hardly sophisticated and another representation of the crap that is - sterotypes.

As for challenging each other, jazz musicians just want the very best out of each other in order to achieve truly great music. It may seem like they challenge in each other to you or your teacher, but in actual fact they're just communicating with one another and asking for more.

Yes, alright, Jazz is hard to swallow for some people, but that's because they're not used to that freedom and intensity it can posess and to be frank - I can understand that. I wouldn't expect anyone who's a hardcore rap and hip hop listener to immediatley understand and love John Coltrane or Miles Davis. Jazz has to be introduced slowly to people so they can digest and understand it's history - people are either too impatient or too lazy these days to do it and sterotypes like that don't help whatsoever.

To quote Frank Zappa, 'Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny.'

I think that's the case today and here especially.
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talkig about competition.....does anyone else realise that if any of your non jazz liking non intrument playing friends hears some great jazz drumming they say 'meh'.....but if they hear some average rock they think its the best ever!!

non drummers are too fixed on spead and loudness....its all about the technique!!
 
Deltadrummer said:
Since you've ressurrected this thread, I hope you went back and read through all 32 pages. I actually read through it at one point.
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i know im a bit behind on it....rock was being talked about a bit back!....
i just want to get that point out
 
Bosphorus said:
talkig about competition.....does anyone else realise that if any of your non jazz liking non intrument playing friends hears some great jazz drumming they say 'meh'.....but if they hear some average rock they think its the best ever!!

non drummers are too fixed on spead and loudness....its all about the technique!!
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The problem I have is that when I play "my music," something with Philly Jo or Art Blakey on it, people think it really sucks. The other day I was playing Horace Silver for a friend, and he said, "listen to this," I said, "that sounds like something you got with your Esteban guitar. "It was.
 
Re: -JAZZ-

Dr Drums said:
And then we talked about how wrong Jazz has gone... It was originally music for people who wanted to runaway, swing and dance...
But today, higher society people have totally took over. It's become "sophisticated" and intelligent music, mostly for musicians who play their own game: Challenge each other to see who's more sophisticated and who's better....
That's why Jazz doesn't sell much nowadays.., It's too hard to swallow for most people
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Firstly, Jazz hasn't gone wrong at all. Contemporary jazz, and British jazz, at the moment is coming on leaps and bounds, which leads me on healthily to suggest that Jazz is far from dead.

Secondly, Jazz wasn't created for people who want to "runaway", although I'm not sure entirely what you mean...Are you thinking of Blues? In terms of slavery, etc? The original trad scene was totally mainstream, but, like today, wealthy men in business suits wanted to exploit dance and swing musicians for financial gain, or at least that's the way guys like Charlie Parker and Dizzy saw it. Hard-working musicians like these guys were sick of it, as they were practicing hard to learn how to create good music. Eventually, they formed a different style of playing that was so complex and free, that only a few select musicians at the time had the ability to create this music, the one style of music that nobody could exploit, because not many people fully understood it. I'm talking about Be-Bop. It wasn't created for dancing or swinging, it's for musicians to LISTEN.

It is nothing to do with who's better than who. Jazz musicians, in my experience, never make a point of challenging each other, they challenge THEMSELVES. It's all about you (and the rest of the band), and being the best you can be. Jazz can't just "become" sophisticated music, it always has been. It's just that today, kids are lazy, they soak up whatever crap is served to them on a plate, then move on to the next course. This process is repeated essentially the rest of their lives. They listen to a select couple of genres, that are essentially all part of the mainstream, and all marketed in the same way: Heavily.

I may sound elitist, and you're damn right I am. I happily play all kinds of music, not for more money or work, but because I love the drums, and I feel I owe it to my passion to learn everything I can. From a musician's point of view, Jazz, is without a doubt the highest form of music, or art of any kind. Completely and utterly challenging in every sense, totally beautiful, deep and free in a 100% positive way. I love the interaction, chemistry between players, and how every note or beat counts. Not to mention the sense of self-satisfaction from watching hard work pay off.

You're right that jazz doesn't sell enough, I think that jazz doesn't need an audience (as nice as that is), it needs support. I'll never really know why it doesn't receive the support it so righteously deserves, and I for one, am sick of it. Jazz is too "hard to swallow" only for the lazy and narrow-minded. To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand how you can be even close to good musicianship, and not be well-versed in playing jazz music. I can't even begin to describe just how magic the genre is, you have to practice and play it lots, but you'll see why eventually.

I know this might seem a bit of a rant aimed at you, Dr Drums, but it's not - honestly, I'm speaking in general terms.
 
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I wonder why talking about jazz always makes people so angry? I've read through a lot of this thread and man! It's a monster of an argument, even if I can't for the life of me tell what it is people are arguing about.
Jazz does live a funny sort of life on this forum, like it's some big deal. It's not. Jazz isn't anything to get upset about, not really. If you play it, you play it. If you don't, you don't. I just don't see what there is to get all riled up about anymore. But I do think that some people here have played a little fast and loose when it comes to putting down some very fine jazz drummers, just because those drummers play in a more-or-less traditional manner.
 
Very odd indeed. I was about to respond to a post made by Matt Smith when suddenly, BLINK! The post was gone, without a trace.
 
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