Technique vs. groove.

GOOSE72

Well-known member
I think that’s what most of those kids on YouTube will be doing. No matter how good you are, there’s always someone better, in the age of the internet.
Right you won't make any money doing it. It's funny to see drummers on forums brag about how good they are or they know the best way to play or teach. And a 6 year old can do it better than they can. Egos always get in the way. I think it's funny and try not to take it serious because the old guys don't like it when a 6 year old can play better than they can. Except Nicko Mcbrain he goes to schools and embraces the kids. Tip of the hat to Nicko.
 

moxman

Silver Member
There are plenty of guys with great groove but average technique who have had solid careers. But these days, you can have Vinnie’s versatility, Buddy’s chops, and Purdie’s groove and still live in your mom’s basement until you’re 35. The profession is a trap these days.
That's why Groove is king.. at the end of the day it's getting the right fit for the music. Even playing the simplest killer groove requires a certain amount of technique.. they are intertwined. Skill level isin't everything for sure but it helps.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Half the people who graduate from Juilliard aren’t even in the industry 10 years later. I imagine the same is true for Berklee, etc..
That's the way it's always been-- since I dropped out to play in '89 I've watched a succession of die-offs, when people realize they don't want to do it any more. Like at age 25, 27, 30, 33, 40... people who make it to 40 without quitting usually have figured out how to survive.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
It's funny to see drummers on forums brag about how good they are or they know the best way to play or teach. And a 6 year old can do it better than they can.
Well, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you're talking about with that.

I think that’s what most of those kids on YouTube will be doing. No matter how good you are, there’s always someone better, in the age of the internet.
The thing is, who is better than who is totally irrelevant. The only thing that counts is, does this individual create a living for him/herself as a musician. I think there's room for virtually everyone who seriously commits to do that. Most people are just unwilling to, because it's hard, and uncertain, and it involves compromises. But ability as judged by people in the cheap seats is totally irrelevant.
 

GOOSE72

Well-known member
Well, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you're talking about with that.

This is what I said I can put up some videos of them doing it if you would like. Sometimes Egos get the best of music folks and need to be addressed and put in check. Matter of fact Ego is a music killer in my opinion. Stay in your lane and appreciate the 6 year olds that play better than us. it's pretty simple.

It's funny to see drummers on forums brag about how good they are or they know the best way to play or teach. And a 6 year old can do it better than they can.
 

GOOSE72

Well-known member
The thing is, who is better than who is totally irrelevant. The only thing that counts is, does this individual create a living for him/herself as a musician. I think there's room for virtually everyone who seriously commits to do that. Most people are just unwilling to, because it's hard, and uncertain, and it involves compromises. But ability as judged by people in the cheap seats is totally irrelevant.
The only thing that counts is, does this individual create a living for him/herself as a musician. That's what you said. Might want to walk that back.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
I don't know what you're trying to say, goose. I never know what you're trying to say, to be honest.

Please fix your quote on comment #67. I only wrote the first sentence, where I said you don't know what you're talking about. I don't want people thinking I wrote the rest of that.
 

GOOSE72

Well-known member
I don't know what you're trying to say, goose. I never know what you're trying to say, to be honest.

Please fix your quote on comment #67. I only wrote the first sentence, where I said you don't know what you're talking about. I don't want people thinking I wrote the rest of that.
You fix it. What did you say?
 

opentune

Platinum Member
It's funny to see drummers on forums brag about how good they are or they know the best way to play or teach. And a 6 year old can do it better than they can.

I think it's funny and try not to take it serious because the old guys don't like it when a 6 year old can play better than they can.
What are you talking about? I've been on 2 drum forums for a decade and nobody really boasts about their drumming at all. Like less than 1% of members. Teachers on these boards are the most instructive helpful people on these boards, if you read their posts and listen.
And the rest of it, to each his/her own but you don't appear to be taking much serious, .....'no rules' 'no books' etc.
 

GOOSE72

Well-known member
Look at post #67. You quoted @toddbishop and then wrote your own incoherent post inside the quote. Your hatred of books and technique carries through to your use of punctuation and grammar.
You fix it.
Well that is just hate speach. Just because I don't have a formal education beyond 9th grade doesn't mean I deserve this type of treatment on this website. When you say I write incoherent posts and I have a hatred of books and technique and then go on to say I can't write of use punctuation and grammar. I guess your saying I'm stupid. It takes a lot for me to admit that I don't have a formal education and perfect like all of you. Thank you all Goodbye.
 

Seafroggys

Silver Member
Well that is just hate speach. Just because I don't have a formal education beyond 9th grade doesn't mean I deserve this type of treatment on this website. When you say I write incoherent posts and I have a hatred of books and technique and then go on to say I can't write of use punctuation and grammar. I guess your saying I'm stupid. It takes a lot for me to admit that I don't have a formal education and perfect like all of you. Thank you all Goodbye.
Goodbye.
 

Lee-Bro

Senior Member
Friends,

I posted this cartoon originally for the humor. As someone who enjoys weightlifting and drumming (not at the same time), I thought it was funny. It wasn't intended to create a hostile discussion.

Please be courteous towards another and if you need to say something to another person, keep in mind you can reach out to them via a private message.

Thank you.
 

jimb

Member
To get this back on track.
I can't solo at all and I can't do fancy fills with a hi-hat bark somewhere in the middle but I love keeping good time, varying the hi-hat groove and using plenty of ghost notes on the snare and the odd double run. Keep it simple tight and true and no-one will complain.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
To me:
Groove - playing what's necessary to keep the momentum going forward, to keep the band glued together.
Technique - how you use your hands and feet in the most efficient way to do your job.
Technicality - musical composition, limb independence, understanding polyrhythms and odd time signatures, linear playing, etc.

So while technique and technicality are great tools for achieving groove, they aren't prerequisites if the style of the music being played doesn't demand it. Example is "I Saw Her Standing There" by The Beatles. When Ringo is banging his right hand on the loose hihat, he's not using Moeller technique. His fingers are tightly gripping the stick. There's no bounce on the loose hihat, and he has to impart enough stroke force to keep the hihat swishing. That's certainly a technique for playing the song, but requires little of the broad spectrum of technique that a session drummer of today would need to be successful.


Groove is also knowing what to play, and that comes from experience playing and listening to music. By the time I was tasked with covering this Beatles tune in the late 90's, I had already been playing for 10 yrs. I could sight read jazz charts. I knew all the rudiments. Could play marching snare. Could play most of Neil Peart stuff. Yet I couldn't make the groove for the song work until I realized the swishy hihat component. I had all the technique prerequisites - I learned how to grip the stick with all my fingers when I was just 7 - but I hadn't listened to a lot of 50s and 60s rock and roll, so I didn't know WHAT to play to make it work. Fortunately I figured it out before our first gig!
 
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Griffin

Active member
Orchestral playing is almost as bad.
I think it was Stewart Copeland, but there’s this great quote where he explains the difference between the orchestral guys and kit drummers as they read every note, and we juts play. He was writing one of his film scores I think and noticed taht even if the part was to play the triangle on the 1 of every bar the guy would read every note from the sheet music and always know “okay I’m in bar 56 and 1’— instead of just playing it.
 
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