Tama Dyna Sync Pedal.

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bud7h4

Silver Member
For all practical purposes with average spring tension and average beater weight, skilas is correct that the chain will never appear slack. But to say that the chain is always under tension means that it should have an identical feel to a direct drive, which it doesn't so that should be enough evidence to convince someone. If tension is the only force on the drive system, they would operate and feel identical.
The difference in feel between chain drive and DD drive is due to the cam (or sprocket), not the chain itself. The cam is also the source of power for chain drives - it acts as a multiplier on the pedal's "throw" - which is why DD doesn't produce the same level of power.
The cam is also why chain drive is easier to control.
And finally, the cam is also why DD feel more readily responsive while chain drive feels slower to respond to input. There's more ground to cover as the chain travels up and down the cam. The difference in feel has NOTHING to do with "slack" in the chain. It's all about cam vs no cam.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
The difference in feel between chain drive and DD drive is due to the cam (or sprocket), not the chain itself. The cam is also the source of power for chain drives - it acts as a multiplier on the pedal's "throw" - which is why DD doesn't produce the same level of power.
The cam is also why chain drive is easier to control.
And finally, the cam is also why DD feel more readily responsive while chain drive feels slower to respond to input. There's more ground to cover as the chain travels up and down the cam. The difference in feel has NOTHING to do with "slack" in the chain. It's all about cam vs no cam.
At this point we’re almost getting into semantics, a little bit. The cam takes advantage of the fact that the chain is flexible, which ALLOWS the chain to coil up a little bit on the rebound half of the stroke. That coiling action allows the chain to store energy which is then released when the chain gets straightened in the process of the beater moving toward the head.

So yes, it’s the chain’s flexibility which gives it more power than a DD. But I’m pretty sure it’s true that the great majority of that extra power comes from the fact that the chain bends around the cam, NOT the fact that the part of the chain that always remains straight has that slight extra give in it.
 

Skilas

Member
#59, #60, #61, #62

Everyone has to know when it no longer makes sense. What I read here is unimaginable. That was it.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
#59, #60, #61, #62

Everyone has to know when it no longer makes sense. What I read here is unimaginable. That was it.
Do you agree with what I said in post 62? Because if that was your point from the beginning, I don’t think anyone was able to understand that you meant that.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
#59, #60, #61, #62

Everyone has to know when it no longer makes sense. What I read here is unimaginable. That was it.
Then you have no imagination. If you can't understand that the top of the DD linkage moves in an arc, and the bottom moves in an arc different from the one on top, and that causes the linkage to undulate as it changes position in space, and that is different from a chain, then you are a bigger idiot than we all already think you are.
 

Skilas

Member
Then you have no imagination. If you can't understand that the top of the DD linkage moves in an arc, and the bottom moves in an arc different from the one on top, and that causes the linkage to undulate as it changes position in space, and that is different from a chain, then you are a bigger idiot than we all already think you are.
First of all, I have not insulted you, but obviously the rules do not apply if you insult me.
Secondly, I am an engineer and do not need any help from you. Don't talk about things you don't understand. Are you (and the others) able to understand scientific material? I mean diagrams, tables, formulas? Then I'll give it to you. If not, don't say anything and don't insult me again.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
First of all, I have not insulted you, but obviously the rules do not apply if you insult me.
Secondly, I am an engineer and do not need any help from you. Don't talk about things you don't understand. Are you (and the others) able to understand scientific material? I mean diagrams, tables, formulas? Then I'll give it to you. If not, don't say anything and don't insult me again.
Prove it. Post your work. I've asked you to do it before and you wouldn't. BTW smart guy, I spent 8 years working in an A/E firm. Guess what my job was? Drawing blueprints and diagrams. You think you are so smart and above all of us. Put up or shut up. Prove your work.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I put him on ignore. I just clicked on his name and tapped the “ignore” button. Simple as that. I suggest everyone do the same. He’s a GD idiot, and isn’t worth anyone’s time, in my humble opinion. Lol
 

Skilas

Member
Prove it. Post your work. I've asked you to do it before and you wouldn't. BTW smart guy, I spent 8 years working in an A/E firm. Guess what my job was? Drawing blueprints and diagrams. You think you are so smart and above all of us. Put up or shut up. Prove your work.
What do you see here? Which type of drive?
 

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Skilas

Member
The black is a circle cam. The blues are accelerator cams of different profiles, the green and red are direct drive with pull point orientation above or below 0 degrees horizontal.
It's about gear ratio over the beater angle. So a complete pedal, not just the cam. Red and green are correct. Black does not exist, is only a reference line (only cam) because there is no exact linear pedal in this world, but your thoughts were correct. So neutral. Both blue lines are pedals with linear cams, so wrong.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
It's about gear ratio over the beater angle. So a complete pedal, not just the cam.
I deduced rate of change in force of pedal over change in beater angle degree, i.e. how the cam affects the beater and footboard. I have no data, only a picture and still figured it out, maybe not perfectly but still figured it out. Still don't think anyone else here understands anything? 0 degrees is horizontal BTW, not vertical.

And I hate to keep kicking this same dead horse, but you can't have a gear ratio in a single gear system. It's rate of acceleration, or mechanical advantage, not gear ratio. The footboard is a lever, not a gear.
 
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