The best advert for your services is a busy gig schedule. Go for it, mate.
I had a very short basic contract drawn up by my lawyer that I use on a very rare occasion where I may not know or trust those I am about to work for .Hey gents, todays update!
So the guy is having his gigs back, like everyone said there's not really anything I can do other than try and explain how unprofessional it is...i did in as nice a way as possible.
I have those gigs in July and he pulled another gig from me but I've managed to fill that with something else with some good players and guys I want to get in with so win win!
Anyway he messaged me today apologising but saying he appreciates the work i have done so far and so does the band leader. I think he has spoken to the band leader and he has said don't piss off your dep!
I will speak to the band leader and let him know my feelings (again in a nice way!) and discuss how we go forward. Gigs are either confirmed or provisional and if they are provisional then I will take anything else that comes in that is confirmed!
Anyways thanks again for all your advice and onwards and upwards!
I had a very short basic contract drawn up by my lawyer that I use on a very rare occasion where I may not know or trust those I am about to work for .
like I said ... I very rarely use it ... and when I do after I explain why I am asking whoever is signing the check to sign it they fully understand and do so with no questions asked.... it protects them as well as me so most actually feel really good about it .
when they don't know me as much as I don't know or trust them it covers everyones ass by tying me to fulfill my duties and them to furnish payment upon completion.
you may want to think about something like that if you are to be doing lots of work like this ... and include a clause that says if a gig is reneged within a certain period of time that you still receive said wages
glad it all worked out brother
you did the right thing and will be rewarded indirectly .... I believe that
That is exactly my position and it is i belive the position of the guitarist and the band leader. Just the drummer. The next time I gig with them -11th july - i'll be clear to say that I need to either treat the gigs as definite's and then they can't change them with 5 days notice or i treat them all as possibles and if something else comes in then I take that.They should also look at it from your perspective. You dep for them, on a regular basis, so thye know and trust you on a professional and a playing level. If they want and need you to remain a reliable dep they should stick to the agreement.
It works both ways, If they want you to trust them when they agree work with you then they have to stick to the agreement. If this were to put a doubt in your head as to there reliability and you may look for work elsewhere and not trust them next time the call comes. Then they would have to start again with a drummer they dont know.
FIVE DAYS?!?!? Man, I would say 2 weeks! I don't know about what your situation is, but it would be hard for me to come up with a replacement gig 5 days in advance.I'll be clear to say that I need to either treat the gigs as definite's and then they can't change them with 5 days notice or i treat them all as possibles and if something else comes in then I take that.
I have to run my business just as they have to run theirs and if we are all cool and honest with each other then we will all be happy.
I think it totally depends on the amount of notice given. If he gave you less than a weeks notice, I would not readily acquiesce to his request. Regardless of how much work he has given, decency dictates that there should be a minimum notification prior to taking back a gig that has been given. Let him know you have already turned down other work for this weekend and that he should pay you for the gig he wants back. Either way manning up for yourself may cost you future work for this band.Beings he has already given you loads of work...And you want to continue to keep getting more from him, in a way, he's an employer of yours. If you stand your ground you may win the battle but lose the war.
Hi Mike, thanks for pitching in.I suppose the answer would lie in how much you want to work this band again in the future. There are many ways to handle this, but that is the real question. There have been bands that I have worked with in the past that I simply refuse to work with ever again because the band leader or the drummer that I was or would be subbing for was just too much of a liar and could not be trusted to keep his word. In some instances, a couple of the bands had stolen some intellectual property and were using it without consent.
When you were offered the gig, it sounds as though you were not really offered the gig – you were simply “on standby in case this other drummer’s other thing didn’t work out.” No one can operate in that manner. I don’t do “standby”; I’m in a business and if they need me on a standby basis, then they need to pay me a retainer so that I will be available if they need me. Otherwise, they don't get to tie up my time without my being compensated.
This business is a business of relationships and trust, as Zoro once told me, and that is true. I don’t know that you can get anyone to sign a contract (around here the scene is way too casual) which has been suggested.
If you’re willing to risk it, you may choose to be unavailable the next time they need you as you’re in demand as a substitute. Yes, they may suspect but can’t prove anything. You just simply say that you can’t do it because you are unavailable. They will then have to make do with whomever they can find – good or bad. If you have experience already with the band, they will most likely not enjoy having to chase down another drummer, rehearse and put up with breaking someone in for a couple of gigs a you are already a known, reliable commodity.
This does work and not just with drummers. One bandleader I work with canceled on one bar to go play another bar. When it came time for our next gig at the jilted bar, there was another band setting up when we arrived. The irony of it is, was that I told him not to cancel that gig, that the other bar had plenty of open dates for us to play. Again, it is about not violating that established relationship.
I might recommend dealing with the bandleader directly. However, there are many bandleaders who enjoy pitting one drummer against another – it gives them a real ego trip to manipulate people (prevalent in the Dallas music scene as there are many drummers desperate to play there). One bandleader enjoys telling other drummers how his drummer (a long-time friend) is lazy and is “being a titty-baby” just because his long-time buddy won’t do what the bandleader wants. Yeah, he’s a real slimeball so be leery when a bandleader of musician starts berating their steady drummer to you.
So my 2 cents is to not be available the next time the drummer needs you, for any amount of money. Because your word and your integrity is worth more than all of the money in the world.
I have many other real world stories regarding this business that I would love to share some time. Many of them are really outrageous (and funny). Some are creative solutions to problems in this business.
I'm with you. From the start, I thought the drummer Dave was depping for is being a tool. First, because he had an existing deal which he appears totally fine with reneging on. Second, over and above the tool-ish reneging, doing so on such short notice.I think it totally depends on the amount of notice given. If he gave you less than a weeks notice, I would not readily acquiesce to his request. Regardless of how much work he has given, decency dictates that there should be a minimum notification prior to taking back a gig that has been given. Let him know you have already turned down other work for this weekend and that he should pay you for the gig he wants back. Either way manning up for yourself may cost you future work for this band.
Hey Bob.I'm with you. From the start, I thought the drummer Dave was depping for is being a tool. First, because he had an existing deal which he appears totally fine with reneging on. Second, over and above the tool-ish reneging, doing so on such short notice.
I'd be very angry. That's why I've been following this thread so closely. It's good to have negotiating techniques in your stick bag. ;-) After some thought, I'd like to describe how I'd approach this.
Note: I am not a professional making a living at his instrument. So the following advice probably stinks.
I'd ask the guy what his concept of "an agreement" is. We have a deal. Breaking that deal is a d!ck move. That's true regardless of my financial situation (i.e., needing the money the gig brings). Breaking an existing agreement without a pretty impressive exigent circumstance is a d!ck move. Just "Oh, hi, I'm back and I no longer need you" is a MASSIVE d!ck move. Whether it's tomorrow night or a month from now, I've cleared my schedule, done my homework, and committed to the deal.
I'll certainly never work for him again. And I'll tell him exactly why.
But like I said, that's easy for me. I can afford to tell arseholes "bollocks".
I hope everything works out, Mr Major. You've got a real sticky wicket to deal with and no mistake.