Swish Knocker

MusiQmaN

Platinum Member
The youtube link in the original post is broken now but well worth a view:


I haven't really finished the Swish and Swish Knocker research for the wiki but here is what I can tell you so far. This is based on my own data collection, the Zildjian model introductions and deletions list (thanks to Paul Francis and Leon Chiappini), The Drum Cave Dave video, and from various discussions I've been involved with in the past. It is preliminary and subject to change with more info.

1977 catalog no Knocker
1979 first release Knocker
1980 first appearance of Knocker in a catalog/price list
1982 Knocker dropped out of catalog/price lists; China Boy appeared
1987 Knocker not in catalog
1991 Knocker not in catalog
2001 Knocker came back in the catalog but in a lighter weight
2010? new design clone of Mel Lewis cymbal
2011? new design clone of Mel Lewis cymbal
2013 redesign of A series did not change Knocker, only the ink changed

The 2010 vs 2011 for year of the Mel change might be because it was brought out just before the new year in time for the NAMM show. I've documented a few other cases where a model seems to have a laser serial number which dates to the year before one might expect given the official release date. According the Paul Francis that represents getting stock so they can fill orders when the interest is generated at NAMM.

As far as my info on weights goes:

I haven't found the weight of Mel's original although I may have it buried in my notes somewhere.

In the 60s and 70s there were Swish models in 22" but with the Minicup and these are not Knockers. The weights are in the range 2000g - 2400g. The Swish actually dates back to 1938 when it was patented. Earlier ones (from the 1940s to mid 1950s) were lighter.: 1666g to 1980g

V1 The Knockers from the early period 1979-1985? come in at 2800g to 3032g

V2 The reintroduction period from 2001 to 2010? come in around 2200g weight bracket but I need more data

V3 The Mel clone period (2010? to present) come in around 2500g to 2535g

And of course it is about shape not just weight. Paul Francis goes through some of the shape aspects in the video with John Riley posted above.

Here is Peter Erskine in a video posted May 20, 2010


I can't say if it is a V2 or a V3. It is on the cusp. See what your ears say. I love the way he smiles when he first hits it.
Btw. He mentions the China Boy being released in 81, but his description of the 80 catalog already featured the CB.

I think Wuhan cymbals are made hundreds if not thousands of years already, and might have inspired Zildjian and Gene in the first place.
 

s1212z

Well-known member
Another interested take, don't know much about Hammertones from Jeff Hamilton.



Also below, the K con 'Swish Knocker', or at least that is the video title. So I have to ask, are all K con swishes a Swish Knocker? From the DCD video above, the standards appear strict and Zildjian police might 'knock' on your door if we get this wrong. @MusiQmaN, would you term this as pretty similar to what you have?
 

MusiQmaN

Platinum Member
Another interested take, don't know much about Hammertones from Jeff Hamilton.



Also below, the K con 'Swish Knocker', or at least that is the video title. So I have to ask, are all K con swishes a Swish Knocker? From the DCD video above, the standards appear strict and Zildjian police might 'knock' on your door if we get this wrong. @MusiQmaN, would you term this as pretty similar to what you have?
I would deem these a Swish. Not a Swish knocker if those mentioned in the video are the true rules.

Some with less rivets and some without, snall bell, and made in 18, 20, and 22 in the K Con and Kerope build.

But according to your video, apperently Zildjian made an brilliant Avedis Swish Knocker without rivets too, bending/breaking the rules a bit 😬
 

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
I'd love to have one of these. I missed the Masters series swish from Paiste boat and have been wanting a big swish like this for a while.
This is good news.
 
Top