Swish and Pang cymbals

dajazz

Member
Anyone has experience with these two types of cymbals? First I'm a bit confused about the terminology I thought Swish were the same as Pangs but with a few rivets, right? That's what I thought at least until I have found a few Swish cymbals without rivets and a few Pangs with rivets? Is it something to do with weight or the sound they make? Please help me resolve this dilemma lol. I've found an 18" Pang cymbal for about 70 GBP I think I'm going to purchase it.

Thank you :)
 
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According to the Wikipedia entry (which for once is somewhat well written), "The swish has a higher tone than the pang and is washier with a less pronounced ping, and this difference is accentuated as the swish is generally sold with rivets as a sizzle cymbal, while the pang is sold without rivets. However some drummers remove the rivets from a swish, or add them to a pang, to create intermediate sounds."

Kind of like the difference between a China Boy High and China Boy Low back in the day.
 
I've been told the difference between a Swish and a China is the bell - a Swish has a rounded bell where a China has a bell with square edges.

Of course, most Sabian chinas have round bells.

Paiste Swishes seem to have a lower profile than their China counterparts.

And then a Pang has a round bell and wide flattened edge.
 
Right, pang is clearly distinct because of the flat flange profile, with or without rivets.

The big confuser is swish vs china. Both have an upturned flange. The bell can be square on a china, but even that isn’t always true anymore, lots of modern chinas have round bells. Chinas can have rivets, but it’s less common. Swishes often have rivets, but not always. The old jazz swishes had like 20 rivets, but more recent ones may have only a few. If it’s got a square bell and no rivets, surely a china. If it’s got a round bell and lots of rivets, surely a swish. Any other variation, shrug, whatever.
 
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Thanks everyone, think I've got a clearer idea now, what do you think are the best sizes for them? I mean I understand they are mostly used for big band music, I see that they are probably best in 22s as 18s would probably bring higher frequencies and make it harder to sit in the mix.
 
I love Swishes

Pangs not so much (had an 18" A years ago-
sounded like hitting a NOS 53 Buick front fender
in the parts dept.
 
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Thanks everyone, think I've got a clearer idea now, what do you think are the best sizes for them? I mean I understand they are mostly used for big band music, I see that they are probably best in 22s as 18s would probably bring higher frequencies and make it harder to sit in the mix.

What role do you intend for it? Ride, crash, or accent? As far as I can tell pang cymbals are fairly heavy and really only intended as a ride cymbal. Swishes tend to be thinner but not as thin as a China, so they're a little more versatile.

In general I prefer larger sizes, but they aren't always easy to find. I have a 20" Swish, a 20" China Low, and a 22" Swish, and I used them all as China crash/accent-type cymbals. If you need a big trashy "kaboom!" sound there's nothing like a big swish with rivets in it.

I know the swish and the pang started life as an alternate sound for jazz rides but I've never warmed to wanting that kind of a sound for myself.
 
What role do you intend for it? Ride, crash, or accent? As far as I can tell pang cymbals are fairly heavy and really only intended as a ride cymbal. Swishes tend to be thinner but not as thin as a China, so they're a little more versatile.

In general I prefer larger sizes, but they aren't always easy to find. I have a 20" Swish, a 20" China Low, and a 22" Swish, and I used them all as China crash/accent-type cymbals. If you need a big trashy "kaboom!" sound there's nothing like a big swish with rivets in it.

I know the swish and the pang started life as an alternate sound for jazz rides but I've never warmed to wanting that kind of a sound for myself.
Ride cymbals, I mean I wouldn't mind if it has crashability but yes I would ride them in jazz settings, I assume they will work just in big bands as they both tend to be loud cymbals?
 
I do not own any Swish cymbals, but I got hooked on its unique sound when I first saw a clip of the late Jazz drummer Joe Ascione.
As for the application of the Swish cymbal in a Jazz setting, the Jazz drummer John Riley has some pointers and ideas in this clip.

 
Same room, same player, but here with the original Mel Lewis' owned Swish (playing starts around 6:00):


Never found anything coming close (in my opinion, also Paul Francis remake doesn't).
 
I like the sound of Paiste Swishes. They make them with or without rivets. They have two line of swishes, Masters and 2002. Here is the 24" 2002 with the rivets.

 
Thanks everyone, think I've got a clearer idea now, what do you think are the best sizes for them? I mean I understand they are mostly used for big band music, I see that they are probably best in 22s as 18s would probably bring higher frequencies and make it harder to sit in the mix.
Well the big band identifier was true (at least for me) up to about '72-'73, when Billy Cobham took the swish to whole new places.

I've had one in my default set up for decades (20" Zildjian Swish - came with 8 rivets, currently has 3 or 4) and it's found it's way into all manner of music. Of course, just because it's there doesn't mean I have to play it. So many times it just sits unused - but when there's a cool spot for it... I just love it. BTW I both ride it and crash it.
 
I played a Zildjian Pang one time. It was by far the worst-sounding ride cymbal I've ever played. It made my Scimitar ride sound like it was forged in the fires of Morder and hand-hammered by the god Thor himself.
 
I used to own a Zildjian swish which I hated - it was very high-pitched and clangy, with stick chopper edge. It couldn't hold a candle next to a real deal China made by Chang (a public enterprise similar to Wuhan).
I also used to own a Dream Pang that I liked. The dark, buttery Dream sound works nicely with that design, unlike their loose, inarticulate crash-rides. I sold it to fund a Paiste 505 China that's still better, though.
Paiste makes a Masters swish that's dark and smooth unlike the Zildjian. I'd like to get one as an exotic ride in the future. But it proves that a swish and a pang might have been synonyms (like how Paiste calls their crash-ride "Medium"), and their sounds depend on the line and design.
 
I use a Bosphorus (Stanton Moore) Ping Thang as a secondary crash and or alternative ride. These are much less obnoxious than a China cymbal and yet distinct enough from the other crashes to stand out as a small statement of the unusual. Also makes a good ride if you want a bed of undertones to support a solo in the upper register. I use medium heavy rides with a fair bit of stick definition, but sometimes these speaks too much, hence the Pang over my second FT. Pangs are great if used correctly they are not a narcissist cymbal type like a China type or Ozone crash and need to be played quiet lightly to get the best out of them. Caveat this opinion with the fact that I’ve only ever played 3 Pangs; but they did all exude the same vibe and sound characteristics (UFIP, Bosphorus and unknown Brands). Yeah for Pangs.02143A64-9B80-43FC-A122-C45C8017AB03.jpeg
 

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Along with the differences in shape/profile as others have stated above, the biggest difference to me is that a Pang has a much softer attack than a Swish. When you hit a Swish like you would hit a crash cymbal, it sounds virtually the same as a china. When you hit a Pang like you would a crash cymbal it has a softer, much less harsh stick attack. Almost as if you are hitting a china cymbal with a soft timpani mallet rather than a stick.
 
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