Supraphonic hardware question

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
Hey guys. I’m in the middle of a fight with my LM402. It’s got an annoying overtone I really want to remove which is sucking all the enjoyment out of playing the damn thing. And before you ask, yes the heads are in tune with themselves and I really really can’t hear pitch differences between different lugs. I took the drums apart completely so I’ve got every part off the drum (minus the badge obviously). I have removed the rubber gaskets since many people have told me they change the sound a lot. In doing so I’ve realized now that the lug seems to slide more to the resonant side of the drum because the batter head tension is lower than the reso tension. So to try and fix this I took off the lugs to re-center them over the bead of the shell but noticed there are groove marks left on the inside of the shell by the metal washers that sit between the shell and the screws that keep the lug on.
so I see that the lugs slide towards the reso side of the drum and almost dent the bead (metal on metal contact after removing the rubber gaskets) and I can’t fix this sliding issue because the screws are already really tight and are scratching the drum quite a lot.

should I put the rubber gaskets back on? Or should the indents made by the metal washers not be a problem? Do I just tighten the lugs down more and cause deeper indents? I’m surprised, Ludwig. Why the hell would you make metal washers that scratch the drum permanently? And why would you put rubber gaskets on newer models? I haven’t noticed ANY lug splay issues even after removing these gaskets. I’m really disappointed at Ludwig. I didn’t think their hardware problems were this serious but oh boy. This drum is problem after problem and I’m deeply regretting buying it. Someone help me out please.
 

mrmike

Silver Member
The center bead should hold the lug stationary without having to over tighten the scews. If its sliding at all that's definitely a problem. Personally I like the sound just fine with the gaskets because it does slightly reduce the shells overtone but really you should be able to not use them if that is your preference.

As for tuning I always tune from finger tight and gradually work my way up to the desired pitch. If I mess it up or want a lower tuning I start all over from finger tight. For some reason tuning high to low doesn't work as well for me.
 
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Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
The center bead should hold the lug stationary. If its sliding at all that's definitely a problem. Personally I like the sound just fine with the gaskets because it does slightly reduce the shells overtone but really you should be able to not use them if that is your preference.
Yes it is stationary but the lug pushes against the bead in one spot. It leaves small indents and the screws are tight.
Also, are metal cup washers supposed to be concave towards the shell or against the screw? Currently if I look inside the snare I see domes with screws on top but are they supposed to be facing the other way?
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
It’s got an annoying overtone I really want to remove
By "overtone" do you mean a pronounced harmonic ringing, or is the drum howling with the note of the top head?

Howling is easy - replace the top head with a 'dry' version, which has holes around the edge. That lets the air out and curtails the howl. Some drums just do that regardless how they're tuned, although I've never known any of the Supras to do that.

Controlling the harmonic ring is even easier - a little tape or gel at the edge of the head will quiet that down.

Just curious, what heads do you have on the snare now?

Bermuda
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Is this a new drum or is it a used drum?

Did you ever like the sound of it?

Did you have any issues with the lug gaskets on?

Will the hoops hold onto the drumheads in mid air? (Yes is not a good answer)
 
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Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
By "overtone" do you mean a pronounced harmonic ringing, or is the drum howling with the note of the top head?

Howling is easy - replace the top head with a 'dry' version, which has holes around the edge. That lets the air out and curtails the howl. Some drums just do that regardless how they're tuned, although I've never known any of the Supras to do that.

Controlling the harmonic ring is even easier - a little tape or gel at the edge of the head will quiet that down.

Just curious, what heads do you have on the snare now?

Bermuda
Current heads are Remo Diplomat side and Remo CS Coated batter.
It’s more of a “oscillating sound” or to better describe it, it sounds like a high pitched “wewewewewew” sound. Kinda like the sound you get when you put your head against a moving car’s window and hum. It lasts around a second and it’s there in every tuning I’ve tried the drum. Some say it’s because the heads aren’t in tune with themselves but I’ve checked every lug and every part of the head (batter and side) sounds the same. While I was disassembling the snare completely, I tapped the shell with my knuckle when I only had 2 lugs on it (and nothing else) and it produced a similar sound.
I may try an Evans HD dry but I doubt it’s going to change much. I already tried with the stock heads with no avail.
 

mrmike

Silver Member
Yes it is stationary but the lug pushes against the bead in one spot. It leaves small indents and the screws are tight.
Also, are metal cup washers supposed to be concave towards the shell or against the screw? Currently if I look inside the snare I see domes with screws on top but are they supposed to be facing the other way?
Domes with screws on top is correct.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
Is this a new drum or is it a used drum?

Did you ever like the sound of it?

Did you have any issues with the lug gaskets on?

Will your hoop hold onto your drumhead in mid air? (Yes is not a good answer)
it’s new.

I like the snare until it starts making the sound. It would be a perfect snare if I could just remove the “overtone”.

yes, the problem was still present and that is what lead me to removing the gaskets. It didn’t change much.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
No! I've never taken the gaskets off my newish Supra and my vintage Supra does not have that problem at all. If I understand you correct it happens with or without the gaskets. Can you over muffle the batter and make it go away?
No I mean scratches on the inside of the shell where the washers come in contact with the shell.

also yes, moongel does seem to do the trick quite well but I find I like open snares.
 

mrmike

Silver Member
Ha I just edited my answer to maybe. If the lug scratching the outside or not snug on the bead that would not be good.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
W
Ha I just edited my answer to maybe. If the lug scratching the outside or not snug on the bead that would not be good.
well how can it be snug on the bead? Imperial lugs have bigger gaps than the beads on the Supra from what I can see. With the gaskets on the lugs don’t shift to one side since they can’t go anywhere but when I take them off they’re free to scratch against the aluminium and leave marks and press against the bead. I’m considering just putting the gaskets back on.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Some say it’s because the heads aren’t in tune with themselves but I’ve checked every lug and every part of the head (batter and side) sounds the same.
Do you mean that both heads are tuned to the same note? That could be the problem, especially if the note is low enough that both heads resonate and have some decay. If they're exactly alike, that could produce a howl. If one is off just a little from the other, you may get the oscillation. I recommend tuning the snare side pretty tight, but that it still makes a high pitched note (rather than just a 'pop' when you strike it lightly.) Then bring the batter up to a med-high tuning, and see how that works. All of my 6.5" Supraphonics (aluminum, brass, bronze & copper) are tuned that way and don't have an issue with unpleasant ringing or howling.

Bermuda
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
Do you mean that both heads are tuned to the same note? That could be the problem, especially if the note is low enough that both heads have a decay. If they're exactly alike, that could produce a howl. If one is off just a little from the other, you may get the oscillation. I recommend tuning the snare side pretty tight, but that it still makes a high pitched note (rather than just a 'pop' when you strike it lightly.) Then bring the batter up to a med-high tuning, and see how that works. All of my 6.5" Supraphonics (aluminum, brass, bronze & copper) are tuned that way and don't have an issue with unpleasant ringing or howling.

Bermuda
No, the reso is obviously higher pitched. I’m talking about getting uneven notes on one head because the tension is uneven. I checked and they’re all good. The reso is tuned 2+ full turns while the batter is around 3/4 of a turn. I don’t count turns when tuning but it should be around that ballpark. I almost can’t even push in the reso side head with my finger. Should I go even tighter?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
When I don't like the sound of a snare, tightening the reso always seemed to cure it for me.

The head fails when it gets really hard to turn the rods. If they are still relatively easy to turn, yea, go tighter.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
When I don't like the sound of a snare, tightening the reso always seemed to cure it for me.

The head fails when it gets really hard to turn the rods. If they are still relatively easy to turn, yea, go tighter.
I have a hard time telling between “tight” and “yup, head’s gone”. Do you mean like really REALLY crank it? Or just “hard to push in with a thumb” level?
 
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