Subwoofers

shermanator

Junior Member
Looking to get some lighter weight non-powered subwoofers to mic the bass drum in our rock cover band. Looking into EV SB 122's. I don't think Peavey makes the PR subs anymore? Anyone have any input? Will the EV SB 122's add some thump? Anyone know of any economic sub's that are lightweight? Thanks!
 
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PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Will the EV SB 122's add some thump?
IMO, nope. Will they be louder? Yes. Will it add a decent "sub" sound? Probably not. A 12" simply doesn't move enough air to be effective IMO.

Anyone know of any economic sub's that are lightweight? Thanks!
No. I don't think they exist. A 15" will be ok at best (I know this because I own 15" subs). An 18" is what you need to move the amount of air to be effective.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
How much weight is light? If 65lb isn't heavy, check out the Yamaha CW115V. Passive sub, 500W program, 1000W max, 1/4" and Neutrik jacks. It will do what you want.
 

mikyok

Platinum Member
How big are the venues you're playing?

For small venues you'll only need a single sub, remember more gear = more loading.

A bit of bass drum presence is all you need and maybe an overhead to give the kit a bit of width through the pa. Makes a big difference.

A good bass drum mic is a must. D112/D6 etc.
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
I have the older powered version of the EV SB22. Only weighs 16kg! Definitely adds some kick in small venues, without quite achieving a full, solid sound. For unpowered subs the biggest issue is eq and amps. Just adding passive subs to the existing speakers sounds too muddy too me. You need to scoop out some 120-160Hz so the lows are clearer, or bring a separate controller and another power amp.
For small gigs I now take a Behringer 12” powered sub and put it by my bass drum, making sure its in phase with the natural drum sound. When we dial it in everyone in the band smiles at the boost it gives. And it weighs 19kg instead of 25-35kg like standard subs. Not terribly loud, but it really beefs up my small bass drum in small rooms.
 

shermanator

Junior Member
How much weight is light? If 65lb isn't heavy, check out the Yamaha CW115V. Passive sub, 500W program, 1000W max, 1/4" and Neutrik jacks. It will do what you want.
Thanks to everyone for your responses! Regarding the Yamaha's noted above - what about the SW115V? I see they are quite a bit cheaper than the CW115V's - thanks
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Thanks to everyone for your responses! Regarding the Yamaha's noted above - what about the SW115V? I see they are quite a bit cheaper than the CW115V's - thanks
The only difference is the S model is covered in carpet and the C model is painted. They have a different grill also. The guts, woofer, and input are exactly the same.
 

shermanator

Junior Member
The only difference is the S model is covered in carpet and the C model is painted. They have a different grill also. The guts, woofer, and input are exactly the same.
Cool! I'll try to sell the band on the SW115V's! We primarily play smaller venues - 50-75 people - sometimes less - sometimes a little more. Thanks for the info!
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
For unpowered subs the biggest issue is eq and amps. Just adding passive subs to the existing speakers sounds too muddy too me.
Yup, I tried this and it sounded bad. What I started doing was having basically two different PA Systems at the same show. The tops were Yamaha club series cabinets with a powered head. The "subs" I used were 15" cabinets that had the tweeters turned off. I used a separate power amp and a Mackie 1202 and just plugged in my kick drum, floor tom (sometimes my rack tom), and the bass guitar. So all the bass-y stuff was running JUST through the subs, and all the other guitars and vocals were running through just the mains.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Whenever you need a piece of musical gear that you're not a subject matter expert on, the answer is almost always "Yamaha".

Trumpet? Yamaha.
PA? Yamaha
Violin? Yamaha

I picked up a pair of CBR12's and an EMX7 last week for basement rehearsals and vocal lessons.. Their PA stuff, even their low end stuff like mine, is really nice.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
What are you using for tops? You may be better off upgrading those if they aren't up to task.
Similarly, I've seen a number of cases where bands have a PA like mine, add a sub, and then burn a horn shortly thereafter because they now have the amp headroom to drive the tops harder. Fortunately, I can now tell my Yamaha mixer what model of Yamaha speakers I have, and it will set the output limiters appropriately in addition to some DSP/EQ magic.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Whenever you need a piece of musical gear that you're not a subject matter expert on, the answer is almost always "Yamaha".

Trumpet? Yamaha.
PA? Yamaha
Violin? Yamaha

I picked up a pair of CBR12's and an EMX7 last week for basement rehearsals and vocal lessons.. Their PA stuff, even their low end stuff like mine, is really nice.
I mean...yeah. I hate to oversimplify, and their snares have never been my fave (compared to some others), but...their high quality is remarkably consistent across many, many product lines.
 

shermanator

Junior Member
What are you using for tops? You may be better off upgrading those if they aren't up to task.
We have Kustom active speakers and are quite happy with them - I believe they are 15" - peavey 8 channel 400W powered mixer - 3 Kustom monitors - and a Behringer amp - not sure - I think it's 2000W. Currently have home-made 12" subs - the wooden cabinet is bulky and heavy - around 100 lbs. and they aren't working too great - looking to get other subs. Gig's are mainly small venues - 50 to 100 - thanks
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Part of me wants to argue the fact that, "hey, how much money are you making in this music thing?" to justify buying a full PA with a couple of subs? I look at some of the sound equipment I own and most of it was a justification. Heck, sometimes if we're playing a real venue, we don't bring my stuff anyway. Just a few years ago I was ready to take the plunge and invest in my own subs so we'd sound great, and then I thought, "wait a minute..."

It's one thing to continually book your band for $1500 gigs to say "ok, we need a bigger system to handle this workload", but if you're just playing local bars, or aren't always booking gigs, I'd say "you get what we have". I mean, I'd love to use my own big system every time I go out, but there's a $$$-to-gig ratio that must be satisfied. I think in this case (making the bass drum have more 'oomph', just tells me the band's playing too loud. Or the drummer's not playing loud enough. When the band is properly balanced, it will sound full regardless of the amplification involved.

Why not try the easy solution first and get the guitars to come down some? The sexiest thing I ever did was when one of the bands I played in years ago, stayed soft-to-medium most of the night. The audience was literally drawn in (like a seduction) and every now and then we'd go 'BAM' and everyone would shudder. It was quite a experience to see. From what I recall, that band got a few bookings from the people that were watching that night. Sometimes audiences don't need to be beat on the head as much as led where they want to go. Does that sound crazy?

I say save the money and seek out solutions that don't require buying more gear. If you are booking alot of jobs and just don't need the money, then go all the way and get a PA system that's big and over-powered, complete with sound guy. But if you're not at that level, I'd start simple.

Sorry to derail - I'm just reading all these solutions, and it just comes down to spending more money, and I've been there enough to know what "operating in the red" really means.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Sorry to derail - I'm just reading all these solutions, and it just comes down to spending more money, and I've been there enough to know what "operating in the red" really means.
On the same vein.....

If you have Yamaha tops, Yamaha subs, stands to mate them, and a Yamaha mixer, it makes it really easy to rent to DJ's, bands, events, and whatnot. With a bit of effort and idiot-proofing, a PA can pay for itself. I recall a few years that my gear made just as much as I did... It wasn't much, but I made rent and ate.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
On the same vein.....

If you have Yamaha tops, Yamaha subs, stands to mate them, and a Yamaha mixer, it makes it really easy to rent to DJ's, bands, events, and whatnot. With a bit of effort and idiot-proofing, a PA can pay for itself. I recall a few years that my gear made just as much as I did... It wasn't much, but I made rent and ate.
And I'm sorta doing that now, but they also buy me in the process. You get an actual sound engineer. I'm a little loathe to rent my stuff to people I don't know, who may or may not know how it all works. Especially with the newfangled iPad-controlled consoles, there's no way anyone can just turn that stuff on and know what they're doing.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
And I'm sorta doing that now, but they also buy me in the process. You get an actual sound engineer. I'm a little loathe to rent my stuff to people I don't know, who may or may not know how it all works. Especially with the newfangled iPad-controlled consoles, there's no way anyone can just turn that stuff on and know what they're doing.
Indeed. I learned that I always had to, at the very least, perform the delivery and setup. Most of my rental/breakage issues had to do with poor transportation and set up of the power amps... Honestly, how F'ing hard is it not to plug in banana plugs backwards and read the stereo/bridged mode diagram? Pretty hard apparently. Damn... two decades later and I'm still bitter. Who would have guessed.
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Thanks to everyone for your input/replies!

We shifted gears a bit and ended up getting 18" Peavey PV 118 subs. Used them tonight at practice and were very happy with them! Looking forward to using them at our next gig - 2/01.
Those will sound so much better than just about any 12" "sub" you can get. Good move!
 
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