Still thinking about that Sweet Cymbal Pack...

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Hey all, just an update, a few days ago I was thinking about getting one of those Zildjian Sweet cymbal packs which consists of a 21" Sweet Ride, 16" and 18" Fast crashes and a set of 14" New Beat hi-hats. The perfect cymbal set as I've always played A's and been hovering around those sizes all my life.

Well, today I got a chance to actually check out some Fast Crashes and the Sweet Ride in a store to day that had those models out to play on. Remember, I bought my current cymbal set-up a little over 20 years ago and back then I complained that newer cymbals were getting thicker and clangier and this steered me towards finding lighter, washier cymbals and my current set-up includes thin crashes (as opposed to "Medium" or "Medium Thin"), a K Custom Dark Ride which is very light and washy, and I went between New Beats and Quick Beats, but my Quick Beats are from the late 70s and my New Beats were new in 1990.

Today confirmed for me though that cymbals are still getting a bit heavier and clangier. The Sweet Ride felt like an old Medium Ride, and the Fast Crashes (supposedly thinner and quicker than my current Thin Crashes) are about the same as my current crashes. The New Beats seemed ok in this particular set, but they could be a little washier.

I hate to say it, but I think I'm now a confirmed 'vintage' cymbal player. I was a little disappointed in the slight non-responsiveness of these new cymbals, or maybe my touch is too light for todays cymbal products? What I did like was those Meinl Byzance cymbals, very light and washy and sensitive, so maybe Meinl is in my future, but those are definitely not as cheap as the Zildjian A's, but if it gives me the voice I want....

It's kind of a drag - why are cymbals getting thicker when we keep talking about getting more musical? Clangy musical? Weird.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I agree. Whilst it's not difficult to find thinner cymbals, you often have to look outside of Sabian and Zildjian (the worst offenders in this regard) to find what you want. I remember playing a few Zildjians on a studio kit and being very unimpressed with them - K Customs, if I recall. They were thick and unresponsive.

I play a combination of Dream, Paiste, Diril and Istanbul on my kit and that gives me thin cymbals and dry cymbals. The hats are quite thick but they're great. I think playing thinner cymbals allows you to draw the sound out a lot more and gives you the opportunity to play with real dynamic range. If a cymbal can speak at the slightest of touches then you can really express those dynamics with brushes, mallets and sticks. Too often with thick cymbals you can only play them with sticks and mallets have to be played very hard to get them to do anything.

Have you considered looking at Diril and Istanbul? I happen to know a chap that is the main Diril distributor in the US if you're interested...
 

jornthedrummer

Silver Member
I have a 16" and 18" A custom. Came as a part of the Zildjian Inspiration Pack.
I find them too light weight in many rooms. Other rooms are ok.
For me I think it's time for some K crashes.
I also want to check out Benny Grebs cymbals though I suspect they are on the dry side
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
Interesting, Bo. I'd be curious to hear what you would think about the 19" Sabian AAXplosion crash, which of course happens to be my favorite crash. It has a wonderful bell on it too and I use it for a ride. Beside that, you should check out the Paiste Signatures. They are very bright and responsive.
 

Shirai

Member
I hate to say it, but I think I'm now a confirmed 'vintage' cymbal player. I was a little disappointed in the slight non-responsiveness of these new cymbals, or maybe my touch is too light for todays cymbal products? What I did like was those Meinl Byzance cymbals, very light and washy and sensitive, so maybe Meinl is in my future, but those are definitely not as cheap as the Zildjian A's, but if it gives me the voice I want....
I've been on a similar track myself. I've been a lot more intrigued by the Byzance line than anything the "big 3" (Zildjian / Sabian / Paiste) have been producing recently, with the possible exception of Zildjian's Constantinople line... but geez, they're expensive.

My church was using a set of AAX-plosion crashes that had a nice response but were really harsh sounding through the system, and created a lot of stage noise. I recommended they look into something darker and lower pitched. They ended up buying the very same 20" Byzance Medium Crash that I had my eye on from GC. That is one fantastic cymbal. It calls itself a medium, but in reality it's quite light. Really sensitive to different kinds of strokes, beautiful wash, trashy dark tone...
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
I've been crash hunting lately, it's pretty hard to find cymbals that respond to light hits, most of them are like ride cymbals to me.

18"hhx evolution and various k's are my pick. The sabian opens up really quickly. I wanted ufip's but they're scarce right now.
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
I hate to say it, but I think I'm now a confirmed 'vintage' cymbal player.
Why "hate" it? You're in good company! :D

I was a little disappointed in the slight non-responsiveness of these new cymbals, or maybe my touch is too light for todays cymbal products?
It's the cymbals. Since you can find other, responsive cymbals that work better for your touch, then it's TOTALLY the cymbals. I, myself, have several sets of different thicknesses for different kinds of gigs.

It's kind of a drag - why are cymbals getting thicker when we keep talking about getting more musical? Clangy musical? Weird.
"What do you mean 'play with dynamics'? I'm playing as hard as I can!"

I'm pretty sure A Zildjian cymbals are gonna remain thick, even the "Fast Crash". You can look to A Customs and HHX Evolutions for crashes that open up under light playing as well. Or, to solidify your membership in the vintage cymbal club, get yourself some nice 50s cymbals. That's the golden era. They get thicker and clangier from then on...
 

braincramp

Gold Member
..maybe try some fast crash A customs? been playing the 17 and 18 as part of a whole A custom set...very thin!!
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I guess I'm the odd man out here thinking newer cymbals seem to be lighter and thinner.

I've got about a dozen old Zildjians, and after seeing this thread, I compared an older 21" Medium Ride with my new 21" Sweet Ride. (compared just by lifting each up several times - not weighing with a scale or anything).

The Sweet Ride is significantly lighter. Feeling the edge, you can feel the difference in thickness. But then again, with the Sweet Ride, you can see the lathe lines getting very much closer on the last inch of the outer edge, and feel that it's thinner there too.
I guess that's why it crashes so well.

Anyways, it seems the trend nowadays is for people to want thin, flickable, responsive, dry cymbals with little or no wash, and a pronounced ping.
Maybe they should be looking more at crashes than rides?

Then again - what do I know - ha ha.
 

adam!

Senior Member
I recommend Paiste Giant Beats.... They're expanding their sizes in the series too.. 602's are great too!
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I've got an A Custom Crash. But it's not 17" anymore - just a shade over 14" - ha ha.
Bought it cracked for a decent price, cut it down, and it's useable for certain things, but doesn't sound like an un-modified one.
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Bo, have you tried the Armand series? I like them better for that thing than the Sweet ride or New Beats. There's more complexity without being as dark as K's. If I had the money I'd have some, but I already have the Dreams for that, even though they don't have the same dynamic range.

Also, the Paiste signature fast crashes are really quick and open, more like 60's A's. They also have a really sweet sound, especially at lower volumes. I've not played an 18", but have played 14-17" and they all have a common thing, just that you can hit the larger ones harder before they splash. Actually I've never hit a 16 or 17 hard enough to do that, just going from playing the 14 and 15" at various times in smaller gigs.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Thanks for the suggestions, but even before I started looking at the Sweet Pack, I determined that all I really need is an extra ride right now. I'm in a position to rent out my other kit and they like to rent the whole thing. So with my regular drumset cymbal set of 20" K Custom dark ride and my Jordan-influenced hat set of 17" A thin crash on top of a 17" medium crash, that leaves me with my 18" thin crash and 14" Quick Beats for the rental. Since it's a rental, I can probably just find some medium ride and throw that in with the deal, and we're all covered.

I'd like a new set of cymbals, but I'm in no way tired of my current set. But part of me says I've been playing these same cymbals now for over 20 years. I could afford to try new things, and I'm not getting any younger. Like maybe the Meinl Byzance stuff, or those Paiste 2002's I've always wanted to play. At the same time, I realize, the instrument is just a tool to me, and if it works, don't fix it. At least on the cymbal side I've been thinking like that. It's funny when I consider how many drumsets I've gone through, I've always used the same cymbals. Weird, huh?
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
...that leaves me with my 18" thin crash and 14" Quick Beats for the rental. Since it's a rental, I can probably just find some medium ride and throw that in with the deal, and we're all covered...

Probably your best bet. You can get an older A Medium Ride (or some other brand) fairly cheap nowadays. As you'll be renting it out, instead of playing it yourself - no problem.

I don't think it's strange at all using the same cymbals for a long time. I've got a bunch of different ones recently, but the old ones are always still in use.

Doesn't hurt to check around and see if some different kind of ride really calls out to you though.
 

Toolate

Platinum Member
I am a total beginner (esp compared to you) but my findings have been the same. I really prefer a thinner sound and having played most things from B8's to my A's I have to say that I really prefer the A's to just about anything.

Current favorite cymbal is a AAX crash which, if it were any thinner, would be tin foil.

I think so much of the way I think of drums/cymbals sounding, or the way I want them to sound, comes from listening to Pink Floyd as a kid (yet to try Giant beats). I wonder if you have something you are after that you havent admitted/figured out yet.

Is there a band or song that you love the cymbal sounds of?
 

wombat

Senior Member
Having had 2 packs..one came with the drums (paiste pst3s) and another set I must have been concussed when I bought (ZBTS...actually not as bad as reputed but not great for the money)

I now have a lineup of different manufacturers and types.....each one picked for a certain sound...in fact I have groupings of cymbals depending on mood.

I cant say I am a huge fan of Paiste as they seem to have a very loud / explosive crash...but that said if I was a Keith Moon prodigy Paiste New Beats is what I would buy,

Paistes to me at least sound "brighter" than Sabians / Zildjians...never heard much of Meinl..wonder how they sound.

Maybee the Paistes are bright cos they use b8 alloy in their top end as well as lower end ( non brass) pies...maybee thats the key...

anyway im ignorant insofar as its not my style of crash..... but maybee you will like em cos its not my style...kind of your ying to my yang
 
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