Stainless Steel Stands?

cburgess

Member
Does anyone know if any of the drum hardware companies make drum hardware, specifically stands and related hardware?

[FYI - I did a search of this forum and nothing relevant was found]

Personally, I hate chrome. I would prefer stainless steel instead. SS can be polished, or have a brushed finish without the toxic plating chemicals of chrome plating a base metal. While SS contains chromium, it is much less toxic than the plating process. SS would be much more durable than the chrome plated hardware, and far less a problem with corrosion. Sure, SS would be a little heavier than the current models, but I don't plan on backpacking them across rugged terrain.
 

roncadillac

Member
I work in breweries so I too am familiar with how versatile and awesome stainless is. Problem is that stainless is expensive and heavy.

Yamaha and canopus (and I'm sure some others) offer aluminum stands, check those out. Much lighter and cheaper then stainless and are noticeably not chrome.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
The 6x material cost is what will bite you. While I do not expect the result to be 6x the price, you'd still be looking at >$2k for a typical hardware setup.

Meanwhile there is aluminum (Yamaha).....

If you live near an Aerospace surplus outlet, you might see if you can grab some TiAl. Tough, light, and will survive both supersonic flight and atmospheric re-entry.... Just in case you do that kind of stuff with your kit.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I've never seen, at least not knowingly, stainless steel snare stands, cymbal stands, and so on. That doesn't mean someone isn't making them, however. I use only Pearl hardware and am unaware of stainless steel offerings from that manufacturer.

A member started a thread not too long ago on the potential merits of plastic hardware. Perhaps that will catch on in the future.
 

cburgess

Member
I like the idea of TiAl - lightweight, tough, and corrosion resistance. The price will be even higher than SS.

I make my living as a commercial photographer. I use a lot of stands, most of which are aluminum. My C-stands, are much heavier and can handle situations that aluminum stands could not handle. The tripod for my camera is carbon fiber. For some gigs the weight can be a factor, but most of the time it is not. As for my drum kit, the weight difference of SS also is not a factor, even with the occasional gig.

Let's say one of the drum gear companies added to their line a SS option. The scale of production would not be 6x current material costs. The chrome plating process is expensive in a lot of ways: the chemicals are expensive, and because they are toxic the regulatory permits are likewise expensive. Skipping the chrome plating process will offset the cost of SS. As an example, say you have a '68 Mustang, and instead of buying an aftermarket chrome front bumper, you'd rather keep the original and get it chrome plated. You'd be surprised at the price difference. In most cases the aftermarket bumper is cheaper than getting the original restored.

I got my first kit back in the very early 70's. The only things that have changed since then is the design. While the design has changed and vastly improved, same materials are still used. Back then, my number one complaint was that cymbals stands had the tendency to walk away from you. There's a video on YouTube where Led Zeppelin band members kept repositioning the stands while Bonham was in the midst of his solo in Moby Dick. So the base of the stands have come a long way - but they'll still walk away at a slower pace now. [In photography I use specialized sand bags to keep my stands from tipping over, and I use them with my kit too...just google "photography sand bags" and you'll see what I mean.]

Another thing that has not changed since the early 70's, when tightening the the wing bolts on the stand, you can easily put a dent in the tube. Or a lug bolt strips a thread. Whatever the alloy is, it's way too soft.

The 6x material cost is what will bite you. While I do not expect the result to be 6x the price, you'd still be looking at >$2k for a typical hardware setup.

Meanwhile there is aluminum (Yamaha).....

If you live near an Aerospace surplus outlet, you might see if you can grab some TiAl. Tough, light, and will survive both supersonic flight and atmospheric re-entry.... Just in case you do that kind of stuff with your kit.
 
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cburgess

Member
I work in breweries so I too am familiar with how versatile and awesome stainless is. Problem is that stainless is expensive and heavy.

Yamaha and canopus (and I'm sure some others) offer aluminum stands, check those out. Much lighter and cheaper then stainless and are noticeably not chrome.
Just checked the scrap prices on stainless steel, regular steel, aluminum, brass and bronze. The cheapest is regular steel, and stainless steel is cheaper than aluminum, brass and bronze. The wholesale prices of things made from these metals, depending on fabrication costs, the general markup between scrap price and retail is from 3x to 5x scrap.
 

roncadillac

Member
Ok, not sure what to say. We've already established that no one makes stands out of stainless, you make it sound as though you are versed in metallurgy so give it a shot if you so desire. Try reaching out to big manufacturers and make the suggestion, I doubt you'll get more then a generic corporate response unfortunately but it never hurts to try.

A few companies make black powder coat and black chrome stands so if it doesn't HAVE to be stainless and can be simply not the shiney chrome as we know it then I can't see why you couldn't get different powder coated colors. These of course would be custom and probably aftermarket but possible.

Regardless of what direction you go... You're going to be spending some money.
 

roncadillac

Member
I like the idea of TiAl - lightweight, tough, and corrosion resistance. The price will be even higher than SS.

I make my living as a commercial photographer. I use a lot of stands, most of which are aluminum. My C-stands, are much heavier and can handle situations that aluminum stands could not handle. The tripod for my camera is carbon fiber. For some gigs the weight can be a factor, but most of the time it is not. As for my drum kit, the weight difference of SS also is not a factor, even with the occasional gig.

Let's say one of the drum gear companies added to their line a SS option. The scale of production would not be 6x current material costs. The chrome plating process is expensive in a lot of ways: the chemicals are expensive, and because they are toxic the regulatory permits are likewise expensive. Skipping the chrome plating process will offset the cost of SS. As an example, say you have a '68 Mustang, and instead of buying an aftermarket chrome front bumper, you'd rather keep the original and get it chrome plated. You'd be surprised at the price difference. In most cases the aftermarket bumper is cheaper than getting the original restored.

I got my first kit back in the very early 70's. The only things that have changed since then is the design. While the design has changed and vastly improved, same materials are still used. Back then, my number one complaint was that cymbals stands had the tendency to walk away from you. There's a video on YouTube where Led Zeppelin band members kept repositioning the stands while Bonham was in the midst of his solo in Moby Dick. So the base of the stands have come a long way - but they'll still walk away at a slower pace now. [In photography I use specialized sand bags to keep my stands from tipping over, and I use them with my kit too...just google "photography sand bags" and you'll see what I mean.]

Another thing that has not changed since the early 70's, when tightening the the wing bolts on the stand, you can easily put a dent in the tube. Or a lug bolt strips a thread. Whatever the alloy is, it's way too soft.
How hard are you hitting? In my younger days I went through a serious (and inappropriate) 'bashing' phase in which I was cracking 20" medium rides every 4-6 months, several pairs of sticks per practice, and snare heads monthly. I've also had many people comment on my 'guerilla grip' when tightening wing nuts. I've never had a stand walk anywhere near what you speak of and never had bent a tube from over tightening wing nuts. I played a 22" Zildjian earth ride as a crash on a DIY stand that used the very small tripod base from a snare stand... Never walked around at all.

I since have learned proper technique and none of that is an issue anymore either.

Not saying you don't have proper technique, and I'm trying to avoid sounding like a D-bag as much as possible, but you've been playing since the early 70s (50 or so years now) and you still have stands walking and are still bending tubes from overtightening? Are these the same stands that came with your original set from the 70s? Modern advancements in hardware will blow your mind.
 
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roncadillac

Member
And unfortunately the example of scrap metal pricing is flawed. Say Yamaha decided to start a line of stainless steel hardware, they won't be picking what they can find from a local scrap yard lol... They will have a large scale contract for raw stainless.
 

roncadillac

Member
Tama, pearl, and DW (just to name a few) offer stands with wider base footprints then anything you ever had in the 70s which drastically reduces 'creep'. Many stands in the 70s used tubes for the legs just like the upper sections, modern stands use single or double metal 'strips' with joints to help reduce wobble. Most modern cymbal stand upper sections use plastic compression sleeves to surround the tube, instead of the wingnut pushing against the tube it 'activates' that plastic sleeve causing it to compress around the entire tube (not just pushing into one spot of the tube causing a simple in the metal) which is more stable and prevents the issue you spoke of.

Modern manufacturers have already solved every issue you spoke of, while still keeping hardware lightweight and as affordable as possible. So really this literally only comes down to your visual preference of the hardware not being chrome. Which is fine we all have different taste, it just may not be easy or cheap to find a solution.
 

SYMBOLIC DEATH

Senior Member
I think Tama and Pacidic/DW rack bars are/where made of stainless, but I could be wrong about that and then everything else attached to the rack is regular hardware.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Last I checked there is no one offering ss hardware. I wouldn’t think anyone wants to tool up to make them since everyone just uses what’s available. If you don’t like chrome, I suggest just getting black powder coated stands since those are already being done in limited quantities.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-HW-3-Crosstown-Advanced-Lightweight/dp/B07F9DDMDP

2 straight stands, 1 hi hat stand, 1 snare stand, plus bag to hold it all for $400. Whole set broken down into the bag weighs a total of 17.2lb. No shiny chrome, no possibility for the wing nuts to dimple the stands (they are bolts that compress a sleeve), and wide footprint to prevent walking.
I just bought those and am waiting to get them from Pro Drum. I’ll let everyone know how they really work when I get them!
 

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-HW-3-Crosstown-Advanced-Lightweight/dp/B07F9DDMDP

2 straight stands, 1 hi hat stand, 1 snare stand, plus bag to hold it all for $400. Whole set broken down into the bag weighs a total of 17.2lb. No shiny chrome, no possibility for the wing nuts to dimple the stands (they are bolts that compress a sleeve), and wide footprint to prevent walking.
And like 17lbs for the whole set - I have mine and now it's a running gag among the band how LIGHT it is.
 

roncadillac

Member
Here, Canopus 'hybrid' stand line which is a combination of steel and aluminum:

 

roncadillac

Member
I just bought those and am waiting to get them from Pro Drum. I’ll let everyone know how they really work when I get them!
And like 17lbs for the whole set - I have mine and now it's a running gag among the band how LIGHT it is.
Everything about that set is awesome except the look of the tripod bases haha. They look like speaker stands to me. I do keep looking back at them though and they do seem like a great option.

I only use hats and a ride so the primary reason I haven't gotten them is my hardware set is already really light weight. I've got a single braced hi hat stand, single braced snare stand, and ride stand. I'm in the process of adding a vintage style bass drum cymbal arm to my kit so I'll literally just be carrying hi hat and snare stands plus the arm for the ride and nothing else.
 

SYMBOLIC DEATH

Senior Member
You could also.take a mild abrasive to the chrome hardware to give it the stainless look. A budy of mine did that to his rack to match the brushed stainless lugs.
 

cburgess

Member
How hard are you hitting? In my younger days I went through a serious (and inappropriate) 'bashing' phase in which I was cracking 20" medium rides every 4-6 months, several pairs of sticks per practice, and snare heads monthly. I've also had many people comment on my 'guerilla grip' when tightening wing nuts. I've never had a stand walk anywhere near what you speak of and never had bent a tube from over tightening wing nuts. I played a 22" Zildjian earth ride as a crash on a DIY stand that used the very small tripod base from a snare stand... Never walked around at all.

I since have learned proper technique and none of that is an issue anymore either.

Not saying you don't have proper technique, and I'm trying to avoid sounding like a D-bag as much as possible, but you've been playing since the early 70s (50 or so years now) and you still have stands walking and are still bending tubes from overtightening? Are these the same stands that came with your original set from the 70s? Modern advancements in hardware will blow your mind.
I think the issue of a cymbal stand walking away was more due to the harmonics induced by the tempo that caused them to begin swaying. How hard was I hitting? That depended on what afternoon or evening that I played. I was in a USO house band for the officers club on Travis AFB, CA. Basically played all the top 20 of the time and a lot of older stuff, Sinatra and Bennie Goodman. Some hard rock, classic rock, pop rock, southern rock, rock a billy and bluegrass, and finally jazz fusion and some dirty blues. Basically a wide ranging cover band. Mics setup was primitive, so when I needed to be louder I had to use a larger pair of sticks and hit harder. The walking was more pronounced when playing hard rock, dirty blues, and jazz - depending on tempo. Most of the time the flooring was polished and a carpet pad was frowned upon. Sometimes it was a tile floor and others a wooden floor.

About my technique: your comments got me to thinking. I first started to drum in 1968. When I was playing in the O'Club in the early 70's, I was still pretty young. Back then, there was no internet, YouTube, and other educational materials that is available today - which meant by progression in technique took a lot longer. FF to today, bought a new Pearl kit in 2017, including hardware. When playing I noticed the cymbal stand sometimes began to sway and I'd have flashbacks of what happened in the 70's and I'd ease off. The first thing I replaced was the cheap throne with one from Gibraltar - and yes I was very impressed. Bought some brackets from Gibraltar and I'm likewise very impressed (the Pearl bracket threads were too soft and couldn't hold my toms without pulling out).

More on my technique: I have never cracked a cymbal, broken a stick, or put a hole in a drumhead. After 52 years of drumming, I do not have any signs of arthritis or repetitive stress injuries. Improper technique seems to cause injuries that magnify with age.

Over tightening: after setting up my kit, if they slip, I readjust and tighten a little more. At some point the wingnut puts a dent in the tubing - not actually bending it. The cheap throne that came with my kit was almost identical to the one I had nearly 50 years ago, the only difference being the adjustment in height. Today there is a spring button that holds the height of the throne really good. When I replaced it with a Gibraltar throne, the height adjustment was sold and locked into place. Back in the early 70's my throne used a clevis pin that would occasionally pop out and the throne would bottom out and jar me so bad that I rolled off the back of it.
 

cburgess

Member
Just got email from DW Drums - they use chrome plated steel for their hardware. No SS option available at this time.

Ditto for Gibraltar Hardware.
 
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