Soundguys and drummers

Juniper

Gold Member
I play the frantic London venue circuit with a couple of my bands and we very rarely get a souncheck.

My only interaction with the soundmen tends to be a quick "Hello, how are you" from me when we're setting up in our 15minute changeover from a previous band.

I'd love to get into a discussion about sound and my prefference but unfortunatly there's never the time for it as he's busy looking after all band members and his attention is mostly taken up by the singer or lead guitarist. Most of all though I'm happy to leave it up to him as he knows the venue and the rooms accoustics better than me.
 

Drumsinhisheart

Silver Member
789 cymbals!

I want to see a picture.

I've always used unported kicks. I recently switched, making my own 'kickport.' The thing for me is, if I have been playing an unported kick for a long time, used to the air flow in the shell between heads, and then someone came along and said switch out, please, I'd have a heck of time trying to instantly adapt to the different feel off the batter head with the loss of shock waves moving between the heads.

One question I have. Do sound guys, in general, hate bass drums? Whether it is recordings or live sound bass drums are always buried. I've even heard solos where the kick is lost, OR way too dominant (which causes me to wonder if the sound guys make adjustments based on what factors?).
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
789 cymbals!

I want to see a picture.
I don't have all in one picture (or in one place) but here's about 130 pair of my 154 pair of hats:



16/15/13" on the left, 14" on right, 12" & smaller in the middle.

Bermuda
 

kyle

Senior Member
I don't have all in one picture (or in one place) but here's about 130 pair of my 154 pair of hats:



16/15/13" on the left, 14" on right, 12" & smaller in the middle.

Bermuda
I think you might have a wee bit of a problem.
 

Drumsinhisheart

Silver Member
Problem? Heck no. If I had the funds I'd have whatever sounds I wanted to hear in any given situation. I mean, cymbals are esoteric. Snare drums, too. For some a crash is a crash, but between all the brands out there, plus the custom guys now ... especially in recording situations where things can be truly appreciated.

Man, the keyboardists can have one unit that has 2000 sounds on it. Add to that their software, sound modules, and other keyboards.

The lowly drummer has to pay a king's ransom for some variety.
 

drummerjims

Senior Member
I have always just let the sound guy do his thing. I port the kick just so I wont have to deal with it at a show. I have only ever had a few problems. However the one thing that absolutely drives me crazy is when the sound guy puts triggers on my bass drum. I like to play a lot of dynamics with my bass drum and triggers never pick up the lighter playing like a microphone and When they do pick it up it sounds fake. I have never complained about it but I may start doing so soon. I'm not playing big venues so I don't find it necessary.
 

drummer-russ

Gold Member
I don't have all in one picture (or in one place) but here's about 130 pair of my 154 pair of hats:



16/15/13" on the left, 14" on right, 12" & smaller in the middle.

Bermuda
Amazing! Again very envious. Those likely cost more retail than my first house!!!! Thanks for sharing.
 

Mark_S

Silver Member
I don't have all in one picture (or in one place) but here's about 130 pair of my 154 pair of hats:



16/15/13" on the left, 14" on right, 12" & smaller in the middle.

Bermuda
Moo. Moo moo moo. Moo. Moo moo. You've broke me.

That's a lot of cymbals. Can I have some please?
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
One question I have. Do sound guys, in general, hate bass drums? Whether it is recordings or live sound bass drums are always buried. I've even heard solos where the kick is lost, OR way too dominant (which causes me to wonder if the sound guys make adjustments based on what factors?).
Bass drums, & all instruments operating in the lower registers, are difficult to get balanced in every part of the room. It's entirely likely that the bass drum balance the engineer hears is very different to the balance in another part of the room, especially at the rear or corners. For example, in a typical larger club install, the desk is right at the back of the room. In such situations, it's more likely that the bass drum will be light as you get near the stage, or at least, lacking in weight. A line array system or other DSP systems can help, but you won't usually find that outside of larger gigs. A good engineer will be aware of this, & walk the room to get a feel of what's going on, but it's often left to a compromise.
 

Bretton

Silver Member
have a tech rider, and give it to the sound guy, a couple days in advance if you can. If there`s anything weird about your kit, put it in your tech rider, I had a weird setup with dual rides on either side of my 1 rack tom, which made it near impossible to mic the snare from the top, so I put in the rider `difficult to mic snare from top, suggest bottom only` and switched to triggers on the kicks (double bass kit) so I wouldn`t have to deal with the port debate (have lights in the kicks, with the band logo painted on the inside so it only shows up when the lights are on, port hole would ruin the aesthetic)
 

Drumsinhisheart

Silver Member
Bass drums, & all instruments operating in the lower registers, are difficult to get balanced in every part of the room. It's entirely likely that the bass drum balance the engineer hears is very different to the balance in another part of the room, especially at the rear or corners. For example, in a typical larger club install, the desk is right at the back of the room. In such situations, it's more likely that the bass drum will be light as you get near the stage, or at least, lacking in weight. A line array system or other DSP systems can help, but you won't usually find that outside of larger gigs. A good engineer will be aware of this, & walk the room to get a feel of what's going on, but it's often left to a compromise.
That's interesting. I've always understood lower frequencies as being omnipresent, which is why sub-woofers can be placed less significantly in a room. Bass frequencies can travel through almost anything without special sound reduction materials.

If PAs and sound techs have to concern themselves with that issue, I still wonder why recordings offer drummer's feet little consideration. Producer's and engineers seem to dislike kick drums, especially in more involved music, like Fusion.
 

dwsabianguy

Senior Member
I've always understood lower frequencies as being omnipresent
Well, they are, but we're really talking about the phenomenon of room modes and how the wave interacts with itself. Say you have a room that is 26 feet wide (for just one dimension); that room has a fundamental resonance at about 43 Hz, and overtones at 86 Hz and 129 Hz, and all of these waves bouncing around the room will create nodes throughout, which means that if you're standing in the wrong spot, you're going to get no low-end punch from the kick drum or you could get an overwhelming amount of that 86 Hz wave.

Acousticians will try to reduce the effect of room modes by using diffusion and properly-designed sound absorption, but properly-designed clubs are few and far between.
 

shemp

Silver Member
Well, they are, but we're really talking about the phenomenon of room modes and how the wave interacts with itself. Say you have a room that is 26 feet wide (for just one dimension); that room has a fundamental resonance at about 43 Hz, and overtones at 86 Hz and 129 Hz, and all of these waves bouncing around the room will create nodes throughout, which means that if you're standing in the wrong spot, you're going to get no low-end punch from the kick drum or you could get an overwhelming amount of that 86 Hz wave.

Acousticians will try to reduce the effect of room modes by using diffusion and properly-designed sound absorption, but properly-designed clubs are few and far between.
Exactly! Well explained. And really, to be honest, for club gigs if the people are having a good time, then thats the most important thing to the boss. If the bar receipts are $12k during your gig, then you are the greatest band on earth in that moment.
 
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