Sometimes boom doesn't work with whatever the bass guitar sounds like, and sometimes thump gets lost in there, too. The guy out front who hears things the way the audience does is the one who has to make the call. Couldn't he just ask the bass player to EQ his rig differently to get him out of the way of the kick? I suppose... and then we'll read about that on bassplayers.com or something.
I know this topic has become about who controls what, and the attitude that may accompany it. But there's a simple truth here: regardless of how we want our drums to sound, or how we think they should sound because we like what we hear from behind the kit, or because we assume as drummers we know our instrument better than someone else ... the sound guy out front knows what's going on with our drums better than we do from where we sit. Period. It's not experience talking, it's not age, it's not professionalism, there's no perspective or agenda... it's just a fact based on the physics of where two people stand, and the resulting acoustics. When the drummer finishes a gig and wants to know what his drums sounded like... does he ask the bass player? The singer? The stage tech or the monitor guy? God forbid he'd ask the sound man... but he will ask his buddies who were in the audience. IN... THE... AUDIENCE. But... isn't that where the sound man is?! Almost every time, yes. You have to accept that he knows how the kit sounds, and the drummer doesn't... unless he happens to be set-up in the audience. I've yet to see that.
Apart from the discussion of what the sound man actually does once he hears the sound, you must start from the reality that on stage, behind the kit, maybe with a low ceiling, maybe on a concrete floor, with the bass player's amp rumbling your kick's reso head even though you can't hear it... you are in the hands of the sound man. Period.
Does he care how your drums sound to you? He might, and he probably should, but he has other factors to deal with and may not be able to accommodate the sound the way the drummer perceives it. Would the sound man be any good if he just let the drums sound like they do out front, trusting that every drummer knows how to tune? Hard to say, because it doesn't matter if they've tuned their kit great, because (say it with me once again) the drummer doesn't know how his drums sound in the house when mic'd.
The drummer has a responsibility to provide good sounding gear, but the sound man has a responsibility to assist the sound if necessary, and that's usually the case in a live room. I'm not making this up, just reporting what I've observed for the last 35+ years I've been playing bars, clubs, theaters, and concert halls. Unless something changed since I played a small club 10 days ago, I stand by my observations. Has anything changed in the last 10 days? Because I will stand corrected and apologize profusely for everything I've said here!
Sheesh, this is obviously something that the more experienced players here already know, and that the less-experienced ones will just have to learn after they beat their heads against the wall for a few more years. It's just fascinating to read about drummers who don't want to budge, talking about how the sound men won't adapt to them!
Bermuda
I have to thank Bermuda for his respect of sound engineers and live reinforcement....
I may come across sounding jaded and old but I have learned a few things since the late 70's early 80's...
Each venue is different from the room/acoustics to the what the building is made of, roof composition etc...
Not every club is a sonically balanced room... We aren't talking about Wolf Trap or some acoustically designed venue...
Mot clubs are in commercial buildings and have joist ceilings, exposed ducts, etc....
Some of the clubs I have had the honor to play in and mix in have a balanced sound, ie usually a spectrum analyzer daisy chained into the system to get it as balanced to output as possible from the mains due to room restrictions....(key issue)
Some rooms aren't balanced...just can't be due to building material.. They are problems...
Bleeding from the monitors to the mains is another issue... A debate in itself for in ear monitors...
During the time my friend Shannon was working with Mick Fleetwood, I believe they were running around 110 on the mains, around 80 to 90 on the monitors....Thats thousands....
Thats a whole lot of sound to contain....
Think of the savings running in ears instead of the amps and cabinets required on stage....
Big savings...
I meet Assante the percussionist during that time ( he lived in my neighborhood!!! I didn't even know who he was!!! He was the percussionist for Fleetwood on that particular tour!!) and I later worked with him and Mike Robishaw, Blues harp player on Mikes solo release...
At that time, a cassette release was made but they are now available on cd...
Contact MTR Blues on myspace... if you like the blues...
Assante went on to work with Paul Simon...
Anyhow, back to what I was babbling about,
With todays dsp anti feedback systems, you can literally be worry free of feedback, etc...
However, some of these systems induce a phasing type of sound due to constantly trying to adjust to the frequencies inputted...
Once a club is set up properly, sound checks usually take only a few minutes... Other than setting trim on the channels, most gates, and compression, reverb require only minute adjustments...many are using onboard gear with presets so it's a button away..
A good sound man knows the limits of the system he is operating and isn't going to go beyond what its capable of doing...
In one club, the tuning of your drums cold be perfect, no dampening, ziltch...
But those same drums in venue with open ceiling, ducts could create feedback, boominess, etc...
Some of the first recordings I did n the late 70's , our guitarist had an echoplex, there were no stomp boxes or rack mount effects....You made due with what you had...
The main reason why engineers put massive amounts of tape or pillows or remove bottom head of drums, etc...to control things they didn't have gear to control it with...
Today, its a patch away in outboard or onboard gear... You don't need gaffers tape, duct, tape, or anything really.. Gates are wonderful, eq moderately from what I understand....
Again, gain in eq can introduce phasing issues in sound...
Compression and reverb are pretty much standard in any club today... The problem lies in what each club has...
Do they have enough, mics, compressors, gates, effects to cover all instruments without putting a blanket patch on channels...
The same gate settings on a bass drum doesn't apply to a snare or toms if they are needed ... Does the venue have enough to cover your entire band???
I wish it were simple but you are really limited to each venue and the knowledge of the soundman and what he has to work with...
Cords go, amps die, drivers blow, its a never ending dance to make sure all works properly....
What do yo do??? Dig in, find a replacement and try to keep it going...
Peace!!