Soultone endorser regret?

porter

Platinum Member
I've heard the same thing. Word is that many of them are made by Masterworks. Not the Istanbuls - both Mehmet and AGOP have their own manufacturing. But I've heard that at least three of the others are all Masterworks that have been re-branded. Not that it makes them bad cymbals mind you.
I'd consider the Istanbul Mehmet/Agop/Peras to be in sort of a different class than these newer companies. Soultone had Masterwork as an OEM at one point IIRC, though an angry man on the internet told me that they've since gotten their own foundry. He said that someone at the company told him via private email so he couldn't show me a source. Make of that what you will.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Buzin claimed they made their own cymbals, but they were Masterwork, which they eventually had to admit. Soultone took over, continuing Masterwork as the supplier. Later they claimed they didn't get cymbals from Masterwork anymore and I recall said they had acquired their own foundry. More recently they admitted that they still source from Masterwork and another foundry or two.

Bermuda
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Buzin claimed they made their own cymbals, but they were Masterwork, which they eventually had to admit. Soultone took over, continuing Masterwork as the supplier. Later they claimed they didn't get cymbals from Masterwork anymore and I recall said they had acquired their own foundry. More recently they admitted that they still source from Masterwork and another foundry or two.

Bermuda
This sounds like anybody could source cymbals and be their own cymbal company. Would anybody be interested in a set of BoTones cymbals? Or how 'bout BOsphorusovich cymbals? Or BOljians? Wouldn't that be a hoot? Brand my own cymbals!
 

slowrocker

Silver Member
Nor do I, but regrettably these "arrangements" are becoming more common. It taps into that recognition thing so often sought after by mostly younger players, & I think it's scurrilous to put it mildly.

At Guru, we'll have non of it, even though it would doubtless snag some welcome low hanging fruit sales. Heck, we even think twice about selling one of our instruments to someone who we believe is making an inappropriate choice. To us, a customer who isn't delighted with their purchase would be a cause for considerable concern, but for someone who's endorsing our product to be unhappy, or worse, prefer another brand, would just be unthinkable!

Only today, I was having a very nice conversation with a well known drummer who's endorsed a very well known drum brand for many years. He contacted me, & not for the first time. This drummer totally loves our instruments, & all other things being equal, would jump at the chance to endorse our drums, but alas, we can't match the international support he receives. Pity, because his prime time exposure (in Europe) is huge. We're being utterly honest about our limitations, & he's being honest about what he needs. This is a professional conversation, & the kind of conversation I doubt is a regular thing in companies who engage in these scam practices.
One thing that I have seen about Guru; you all don't try to pretend to be something you are not. You don't say one thing to get a sale and say something else to get another person to buy. You are honest and straight up about your drums. You tell all, and are not afraid to admit when you don't have exactly what someone wants or needs. One of the first things I saw from Guru was from another source who was talking about the videos you put out not being EQ'd. It seems you all are very honest, and, if I had the money and wanted an amazing sounding set, I would be proud to do business with you all. I get sick of companies saying one thing and then later finding out it was just a lie to try to get more sales.
 

Ian Ballard

Silver Member
I kind of look at it as the old Groucho Marx quote goes: "I don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member"

Seriously, I've already submitted endorsement apps to Zildjian, Tama and Evans which I've used exclusively for years because I LOVE THEM and honestly think they are the best for what I want to hear and feel. Do I have a chance? Probably not at this point but they know I exist, somebody has heard my CD and knows what I do and that I love their products. That's really all that matters. I remember Steve Smith saying that, he'd already cut successful records with Journey and spoke to Remo Belli himself about becoming an endorser and he said, "Come back in 5 years, if you're still around". That's what it should be. They want people who will help them sell products, just as the drummer wants products they can believe in. Two-way street. Anything less and somebody's getting screwed.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
This sounds like anybody could source cymbals and be their own cymbal company.
They do all the time. I have a list of 30 Turkish cymbal companies (not including the big 4, known Chinese companies, or independents like Hammerax, Matt Nolan, etc.) A few Turkish companies have their own foundries, but most don't. They get their private labeled pies from just a handful of foundries in Istanbul.

Bermuda
 

brady

Platinum Member
This sounds like anybody could source cymbals and be their own cymbal company. Would anybody be interested in a set of BoTones cymbals? Or how 'bout BOsphorusovich cymbals? Or BOljians? Wouldn't that be a hoot? Brand my own cymbals!
Or some Sa-Bo-ans. Get yourself some of those sweet Bo-Zone crashes...
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Or some Sa-Bo-ans. Get yourself some of those sweet Bo-Zone crashes...
It would be funny to be able to afford that just for the joke. Do enough gigs and talk to enough people about "my" cymbals and create an industry buzz of cymbals nobody can get ;)
 

roco

Junior Member
I've never tried Soultone, but as I can hear on yt and their page, they have very good cymbals, and they are cheaper than other brands. Maybe you just picked wrong cymbal for yourself? And A Customs are top of the line, it HAS to be good.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I've never tried Soultone, but as I can hear on yt and their page, they have very good cymbals...
They aren't bad at all, it's just that they sound like offerings from other independent brands like Supernatural, Kasza, Anatolian, Agazarian (GC's house brand), etc etc.

I'd always found them to be on the expensive side though, and even an inviting 70% off list brought them in where most other cymbals were already discounted in stores. I think maybe the best deal going on such "Keller" cymbals are the Kasza line distributed by Big Bang (Ahead products et al.) Nice pies at great prices, I almost nabbed a few crashes the other day, happy to pay the store price!

Bermuda
 

K.Howden

Senior Member
This is really rattling my cage now: "I've been endorsed by" or "blah is endorsing me".

That terminology is plain wrong. YOU are not endorsed by the company, you endorse the COMPANY. It may be sumantics, but christ alive it's annoying! If you can't get the terminology right, you probably don't understand the concept in the first place. No wonder so many people land themselves in confusion and disappointment.

Super-old-man-style-Grumpy McGrumpinson-rant over.

Hope everyone is well :)

Kev
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
This is really rattling my cage now: "I've been endorsed by" or "blah is endorsing me".

That terminology is plain wrong. YOU are not endorsed by the company, you endorse the COMPANY. It may be sumantics, but christ alive it's annoying! If you can't get the terminology right, you probably don't understand the concept in the first place. No wonder so many people land themselves in confusion and disappointment.

Super-old-man-style-Grumpy McGrumpinson-rant over.

Hope everyone is well :)

Kev
Quiet correct.

But at the same time, the company itself doesn't make this clear.

I went to the website, and low and behold, right in the middle of the page, in big bold letters it says "Endorsement Opportunities Available" "click for online application.'

The application is pretty straight forward. Just name, address, post a link to your youtube page, a few other tid bits, and you're done!

No mention of who is endorsing whom.

And unlike say a Zildjian endorsement form, no need to list what record company your band is with, what songs you've been on that have been played on the radio, where in the charts did they rank. Nope, nothing that says you need to prove you're a working drummer, or have a high profile. Just post a couple of youtube drum covers, get your friends to watching them to show you have a post count, and you too can now be a Soultone endorser, as long as you're willing to buy a full set of cymbals.

But don't worry, they'll give you 70% off of a made up price, because these cymbals are not sold in stores.

Brilliant marketing strategy. It's an online infomercial. Too good to be true, yet works over and over again.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I have a SoulTone that is a part of my "A" set of cymbals, meaning my favorites. I got it used, in a collection of cymbals I bought. It has a Masterwork stamp engraved in the metal. I also have cymbals that have the Masterwork logo inked on, and the same Masterwork stamp engraved in the metal. Same factory. 5 of my 7 favorite cymbals are Masterwork stamped. Their cymbals are every bit as good as the majors IMO. They are real handmade, hand hammered, hand signed Turkish cymbals.

Their marketing strategy is aimed at the instant gratification minded young drummers IMO. They play on prospective customers ego's. Face it, it sounds way cooler to say that I have an endorsement deal with Soultone...as opposed to, I just got a new SoulTone cymbal. But nothing wrong at all with their cymbals. They are brighter than I thought Turkish cymbals would be, but I haven't heard all their product lines, I only know about the 5 cymbals I have.

While I don't particularly agree with their endorsement strategy of marketing, I don't hold it against them. They have every right to try and sell cymbals. In fact, from a marketers POV, it's brilliant. I'm sure they racked up lots of sales they wouldn't have made if it wasn't for the ego stroke marketing ploy they use. It's the people who fall for the scheme that I fault. You really have to be on your game with your money these days. People are allowed to trick it out of you. But the products are good, bottom line, so in the end, no one gets hurt. That makes it OK in my book. And people get to brag and come across as better than they probably are lol.

By comparison, Guru is the kind of company that you wish the others would be like, honest. Andy will talk you out of a sale if he truly believes a Guru is the wrong drum for that person. THAT'S integrity. Unheard of!

Bo-zone crashes...priceless!
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
. They have every right to try and sell cymbals. In fact, from a marketers POV, it's brilliant. I'm sure they racked up lots of sales they wouldn't have made if it wasn't for the ego stroke marketing ploy they use. It's the people who fall for the scheme that I fault.
As much as it's easy to make fun of their scheme, a big part of me wishes I had thought of it!

Just keep in mind, when people ask "why are there not more drum shops" this is part of the bigger picture. Be it a mom-and-pop shop, or a big retailer, someone working behind a drum counter lost a potential sale. Which is, as you said, their right to do so. I just wonder if this will lead to other companies following suit.

It becomes an interesting catch-22. You can't get stores to buy much of your products because they don't have very much shelf shelf space, so you sell direct, now the store can't afford to stay open to sell your product because you under sold them. The end result is the consumer has more choices than just the big three (er, four), but the end consumer is also damaged by less ability to compare products in person in a retail environment.

or to quote Paul McCartney... "In This Ever Changing World In Which We Live In.."

 

porter

Platinum Member
It would be funny to be able to afford that just for the joke. Do enough gigs and talk to enough people about "my" cymbals and create an industry buzz of cymbals nobody can get ;)
It's as simple as a Sharpie and an artistic-looking signature! I see a Pitch Black series sequel in our future :)
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
It's as simple as a Sharpie and an artistic-looking signature! I see a Pitch Black series sequel in our future :)
I don't know. I saw that Benny Greb Meinl video, and Meinl uses this big machine with what looks like a sponge to apply the brand logos. I'd need that machine if I can get a custom logo made ;)
 
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