Sorta disappointed in what I hear out there...

Durbs

Senior Member
As we're talking social media - I'd say a good example of the cause (but not the symptom) is all the VF/Zildjian Live jams. Absolutely stonking players, but playing "muso" music solely enjoyed by people impressed by technique and weird time signatures. That's appreciating skill for skills sake, I don't think anyone's whistling those tunes on the bus home.

Much as I love the Orlando Drummer as an educator, contrast his chops with Mike Johnston's musicality. They're both excellent drummers, but I've had to stop learning OD's licks because whilst they're undoubtedly cool, and good practise, they never fit into anything other than drum-along loops, no-ones dropping these fills into Mustang Sally and coming off sounding good.

But for a young-un, growing up in the youtube era - nobody's going to watch/rate their video of them laying down a solid beat with simple fills even if it's musically on point.
 

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
... Maybe I should just start a thread with the question, but I think his comments hit home if I were to judge some teacher from videos-do I even know what to look for.-would chops impress me more than musical skill to fit in? ...
Teachers should have videos in their websies of them 1) PLAYING at top level in group and solo, 2) STUDENTS playing 3) Some article or video explaining/teaching things. That to start.

Most teachers don´t have these 3 items, specially number 2 (I "wonder" why), but the problem is most people will still have no idea which drummer to choose, a bad drummer might sound to them better than world top one, otherwise public (and most "musicians") would be listening to other stuff, hahah. The problem somehow remains...but it is clear that some (or many) "teachers" are aware and try to take advantage of it...
 
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GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Teachers should have videos in their websies of them 1) PLAYING at top level in group and solo, 2) STUDENTS playing 3) Some article or video explaining/teaching things. That to start.

Most teachers don´t have these 3 items, specially number 2 (I "wonder" why), but the problem is most people will still have no idea which drummer to choose, a bad drummer might sound to them better than world top one, otherwise public (and most "musicians") would be listening to other stuff, hahah. The problem somehow remains...but it is clear that some (or many) "teachers" are aware and try to take advantage of it...

Anyway, all that is far from the original thread.

My questions remain, I don´t understand this thread

1) Why Bo wanted to network other drummers?
2) And I don´t understand the thread because most drummers (WAY more than 99%) just play a back beat and eights on the hi-hat ONLY, and the ones that solo (good or bad) are a minority...
Yeah sorry trying to hijack the thread but thanks for responding Alex. You see my problem-if you don't know what's wrong how are you going to know what's correct and it's easy to be impressed by a video if you don't know any better. You mind me asking did you got a formal music degree or just lessons with all the stellar drummers you've been exposed? You don't need a degree to understand music theory I know just curious do you think that matters finding a teacher? As far as Bo I still think he's yanking everybody's chain-but I'm usually wrong LOL. GOBO is an anagram of BOGO-ah it all makes sense now. Hence the two flame suits.
 

danondrums

Well-known member
Teachers should have videos in their websies of them 1) PLAYING at top level in group and solo, 2) STUDENTS playing 3) Some article or video explaining/teaching things. That to start.

Most teachers don´t have these 3 items, specially number 2 (I "wonder" why), but the problem is most people will still have no idea which drummer to choose, a bad drummer might sound to them better than world top one, otherwise public (and most "musicians") would be listening to other stuff, hahah. The problem somehow remains...but it is clear that some (or many) "teachers" are aware and try to take advantage of it...

Anyway, all that is far from the original thread.

My questions remain, I don´t understand this thread

1) Why Bo wanted to network other drummers?
2) And I don´t understand the thread because most drummers (WAY more than 99%) just play a back beat and eights on the hi-hat ONLY, and the ones that solo (good or bad) are a minority...
Your first 3 points I completely agree on and the shortage of this kind of resume for teachers is why I think there is an opportunity for disciplined drummers to earn a living playing, and more importantly teaching. I also don't really understand this thread, but I have a hand injury and can't play as much as usual (only so many hours one can do of foot exercises in a day) so have been sucked in to this drama inducing dialog which I still believe can be simplified down to the point that there is a large majority of people with drum sets and video cameras on youtube who couldn't hold down a steady gig. Point acknowledged and now moving on.
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
It's all about context and goals. The music dictates....

If the job requires a backbeat = play it like you mean it and to the best of your abilities.

That said, not everyone aspires to play Mustang Sally and the other gazillions of songs like it as the end all-be all. I've played ALL of those songs a million times and made a ton of cash doing it. 20+ years of doing it, in fact. The day may come where I want to do that again, but for now, laying down a backbeat is the farthest thing from my mind. It's easy for me to say though, I could give two craps to gig (nowadays).

In terms of Social Media impacting the instrument and music (the way it's learned, played, and presented), the tide is shifting from what many of us grew up with. That paradigm has been smashed and as a result there are gazillions of drummers (and other instrumentalists) who are carving their own/new path. If that's chops based?? So be it. Who am I to judge???

I can only be the best me. If that person happens to be on Instagram displaying their chops they put time in on - good for them!!

I don't feel threatened or undermined by anyone. People play circles around me. I don't need to pretend or defend..
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
To answer Alex Sanguinetti:

Bo is an enigma. An icon here on this forum. Heck this thread is now 4+ pages long. Self-professed "professional" drummer. On LinkedIn his credits include being a sound engineer at Disneyland as well as stage management and production coordination. I think he also played at one time in the Dixieland or some other entertainment band in Disneyland. Way cool I envy him. He'll fill us in I'm sure when he reads this lol. He's a pretty cool cat from what I can tell. We both grew up in SoCal. He's a few years younger than me. I think he'd be cool to hang out with, drink beer, listen to live music. But he's a whole lot more wrapped up and obsessive about drums that I am. He owns or has owned past tense a zillion kits, and a big truck to haul them around in. I think he plays in some cover bands around SoCal. He's not world famous. He's a dude who likes to play drums and is passionate almost to the point of obsession. Way more over-the-top obsessed than I am for sure.

I suppose this forum is networking in some ways, so you and I are networking, too. I'm on Facebook. That's networking. A guy interested in drums and music seeking more interaction with other drummers. Cool. I don't think there's more to his "networking" than that.

You're right 99% of drummers do just play the groove behind the band. Some are way better and can pick just the right fills. Solos... eh.....sometimes the music works for them and sometimes not; with our band in a three set gig I may have 2 four-bar solos, and one song that features me on drums but it's second line not Bonham, so it's not that hard. I posted a video here with me playing that song and I got very few comments on it. Which may be good; if I had sucked royally I'm sure I would have heard about it lol.

Teachers should have videos in their websies of them 1) PLAYING at top level in group and solo, 2) STUDENTS playing 3) Some article or video explaining/teaching things. That to start.

Most teachers don´t have these 3 items, specially number 2 (I "wonder" why), but the problem is most people will still have no idea which drummer to choose, a bad drummer might sound to them better than world top one, otherwise public (and most "musicians") would be listening to other stuff, hahah. The problem somehow remains...but it is clear that some (or many) "teachers" are aware and try to take advantage of it...

Anyway, all that is far from the original thread.

My questions remain, I don´t understand this thread

1) Why Bo wanted to network other drummers?
2) And I don´t understand the thread because most drummers (WAY more than 99%) just play a back beat and eights on the hi-hat ONLY, and the ones that solo (good or bad) are a minority...
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
Regarding criticism, in my opinion there is a difference between 'liking' and 'judging'..

To like something or not is just taste..

But when i would speak about another drummer playing 'bad', then thats judging and in that case, in my opinion, i should be able to play what he plays better..

Thats how i think..

If i go to a drummer and tell him that he needs to listen more to Steve Jordan, i myself should also be able to lay down a groove like Steve Jordan, otherwise my criticism would just be pretentious crap..

Again, thats just how i think because i am a kinda modest person..

I like when someones words match their playing and i tend to get annoyed when, in my opinion, thats not the case..
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
I think your original first post questioning Bo's motivations must have been deleted, where you first asked why Bo wanted to network other drummers.

I do know Bo, from the forum only, pretty well. And he strikes me as a pretty cool and pacific guy, a very nice guy.

I have been here since the beginning of the century so I know him.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
It looks like several of your posts are now deleted.

Anyway, it's like I said: this forum is Networking. I'm networking. Your networking. Facebook is networking.

Why am I interested in contacting other drummers? Why are you? Why is everyone on this forum interested in contacting/ talking to/ discussing/ etc. with other drummers?

It's all networking.

I love the cartoon someone posted earlier about drummer playing just a few notes getting hired. The guy on left playing the most notes the fastest reminds me of dudes I see in GC flailing away, and a lot of the YouTube look how fast I am. Look how fancy I am. I think that is essence of how I feel and how Bo feels.

That is something else...

Yeah, my question was if he has a steady job at Disney (I think he does, or?) and is not teaching or selling a product for drummers why would he be interested in contacting other drummers (out of this forum, because he was already doing that), why also someone would suggest that to him too?
 

TMe

Senior Member
Great video, and I like the vocabulary.

As a drummer in a "weekend band", I try to focus on "kit control", "lockup", and "Keep the 1 and don't get lost."

Some guys are baffled as to why I don't play solos or try to peel off killer chops. It's because I'm not a great drummer. If I can do those three things, while playing songs I've rehearsed for ages, with a band I know well, that's an accomplishment for me.

I think it would make more sense if some of the chops meisters presented their stuff for what it is - solo playing. Maybe some of that stuff would work well in drum solos, but few people could make it work in a band context in front of a live audience.
 
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GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
It´s a long story, but right now I don´t have time to tell you, but I promiss I will.

A short answer is: I dont have a music degree and those lessons you see I took (from Tony Williams, Jeff Watts, etc.) were all way after I was for many years already professional. But I´m pretty sure the story might be interesting to you, because I grew up in a country from a third world, where music, and specially drums are completly out of the culture, in times, early 70´s (1971 started at 13) and of course were no means: teachers, books, etc. A good introduction for knowing about me might be this article, written in the Jazz Magazine of UK, "Crescendo" (written by a professional Jazz drummer), in London 1980, when I was 21. (continues on a second page!).



Complete here: https://a2-images.myspacecdn.com/images03/23/5f595bf6364c4e7dbfdb7c940a35db6b/full.jpg
Yes I would love to hear about it at your leisure. Enjoyed the article-originally from Argentina. A friend of my mine was an anthropologist in Latin American studies-mainly in Ecuador, my interest was mainly genetics and evolutionary history of region. Much like the US it's a land of immigration with lots of similar genetic ancestries. Anways I've always wanted to explore South America and sounds like you were a pioneer. I really like self-taught but then (had the good sense) to seek others (great teachers) to learn and really grow (I should know better myself).
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
..It looks like several of your posts are now deleted..

Which is too bad, because i think in one of those replies he (Sanguinetti), as far as i remember, was saying something about a young child (including a very nice link) who in his opinion played just too amazing in order to be really appreciated by the mass of drummers..

I think there is a truth in that..

One of the reasons why most of the drummers are not appreciating incredible gospel-chops, difficult solo's, 'flashy' playing, etc, is because they completely have no clue about what is played there..

Someone who basically only plays a 2 and 4 backbeat all his life, can completely not relate to all those chops, weird time signatures, etc and then they say..: i wonder if this guy is able to play Mustang Sally..

I was at a Matt Garstka clinic last year, when someone in the audience asked something like..: "..but you never play something that people can actually dance to..?"

Matt Garstka clearly got annoyed a little, but about 10-15 minutes later he came back to the guy, with answering him..:

"Why would I also have to play only simple backbeats when almost the whole world of drummers is allready playing them..?"

I thought that was pretty much saying everything that needed to be said regarding the subject..
 
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