Sorta disappointed in what I hear out there...

philrudd

Senior Member
But I haven't really come across any yet that can lay down a convincing 2 & 4 groove like they mean it.
I think that's 90% of the reason I keep getting gigs. I'm definitely not a 'chops master' but I love laying down a good backbeat.

I think the other 10% of the reason is I show up to rehearsal.

It's kind of amazing how it boils down to that: show up and lay down a groove.
 

trickg

Silver Member
I disagree with the notion that just because something is in public sight somehow means it is open to scrutiny.
Do you go up to overweight people at the grocery store with 20 bags of chips in their cart and tell them that they're going to die soon due to their horrible eating habits?

If you witness something you don't like, just move on. Best to spend time and energy focusing on things you do like.
There's a difference between scrutinzing something or someone, and openly declaring your opinion to them directly. Clearly, you've scrutinized an overweight person with snack food in the grocery store, (or at the very least, have made the observation) or else you wouldn't have had the wherewithal to come up with that comparison.

It's part of the human condition to observe our environment and come to conclusions about it based on our personal scrutiny of it - that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

I guess I can see both sides of it. For 95% of drumming, straight up groove is the order of the day, but if we didn't have the people trying to push the boundaries of what's capable behind the drums, there would never be any advancement, but it gets tedious listening and watching drummers try to play things that are well outside of the capability to play - there's something to be said for staying in your lane.

I think that's 90% of the reason I keep getting gigs. I'm definitely not a 'chops master' but I love laying down a good backbeat.

I think the other 10% of the reason is I show up to rehearsal.

It's kind of amazing how it boils down to that: show up and lay down a groove.
HA! This describes me to the letter - I'm a good trumpet player and I'm a good drummer. I'm not exceptional at either one. However, I have been steadily gigging on horn since 1987, and steadily "gigging" drums (if you call church drumming gigging) since 2003 - it's all about the fact that I'm good enough, I'm reliable, and I'm easy to work with.
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
What's with these threads lately? A bunch of complaining about people who can't even defend themselves here? We aren't low class. We aren't sub-par, we are all drummers who approach the kit in our own way based on our own needs and wants.

Bo, since you have your flame suit on, who are you to judge these people? You aren't Steve Jordan or any of the other drummers you like to name drop. You are a cover drummer who doesn't like band practice if not getting paid. You aren't in MD, or on any tunes played on the radio. I realize you are a legend in your own mind, but that's just narcissism. Again, who are you?

I'm nobody, with no desire to be somebody. If you don't like the things we play, so what? It isn't up to you to decide.


Poor Bo.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I think what Bo was trying to say is, speed and fast chops and crazy solos are definitely the trend right now. But it seems like a lot of drummers aren’t focusing as much on the grooves

But honestly, drumming is drumming and you should take whatever route you wanna take. There’s no wrong way to play

That being said, Bo is a solid player and I’d take his advice any day
Thank you sir.

But to jump on the “who am I to judge”? Issue - I just think, like for all things, there are parameters to conform to if you decide to do this for a living. I like to think the fact that people hire me, and sometimes by reputation alone, would mean I’m able to provide what people want (on a local, bar band level, anyway).

That said, I’m surprised how the conversation went to me judging anybody. Just because we’re talking about an art form somehow negates the working required parameters to get ahead. Which tells me people are quick to just give up on their dream of working as a drummer the minute someone says “you’re doing it wrong”?

People argue, “it’s my art man - get off my back” and then wonder why nobody hires them later? If that’s how it is, ok, I get it. You only want to be who you are, and that’s fine. But don’t tell me there are a million drummers out there, practicing and buying gear, who don’t think about how cool it would be to be that guy who gets called to be paid for what he does.

I’m grateful for every opportunity I get, and I learned early on that nobody was hiring me for “me”. They all want who I’m covering. So to say there are no parameters, or reasons to judge someone’s talent, that just doesn’t exist.

Ok. I’m now wearing TWO flame suits 😉
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Great posts Bo-I think it's hilarious how the thread has gone. I think part because how you jumped around from "networking" to accessing the competition while doing the networking-even qualifying trying to resist being judgmental. I've heard of a double blind experiment but not a double flame suit one LOL. You da man. I note that on Bandmix some groups are stellar and others are just a bunch of guys riffing on some song that vaguely may sound familiar. Apparently they get gigs. The ole adage it's not what you know but who you know. I got to play a lot of gigs cause I was friends of the conductor who organized it all. TBH that bothered me so I always donated my gig earnings to the orchestra fund-I'm shameless but not soul-less. I always worried someone in the audience would realize the "Drummer has no Clothes". Charlatan.
 
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danondrums

Well-known member
There's a difference between scrutinizing something or someone, and openly declaring your opinion to them directly. Clearly, you've scrutinized an overweight person with snack food in the grocery store, (or at the very least, have made the observation) or else you wouldn't have had the wherewithal to come up with that comparison.

It's part of the human condition to observe our environment and come to conclusions about it based on our personal scrutiny of it - that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
Fair enough. I should have said "open to shared public scrutiny."
This thread is basically saying that there are a lot of youtubers armed with drum sets and video cameras that probably would struggle to get a paying gig and that they don't seem to be working toward that goal either... I would agree with that so I think we're on the same page anyway. Cheers!
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
..This thread is basically saying that there are a lot of youtubers armed with drum sets and video cameras that.........................

Thats not what this thread says to me..

I will speak in general (to not make things that personally), but to me threads like this are more about the question if someone has some sort of 'authority' to criticize other drummers or not..

The irony btw is that drummers who really have that authority will very rarely criticize other drummers, because..:

1. They are too busy playing and studying..

2. They have no need at all to 'brush up' their own ego like that, because their playing speaks enough..

Threads like this are just forum-talk, showing that the one maybe read a few more Modern Drummer interviews than the other, nothing more nothing less..
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
LOL that's hilarious when did anyone need authority to criticize someone else. No offense OldSkoolSoul (I get your drift and I agree to a point). But ironically it seems your comment falls prey to a Catch 22 of the same logic-where did you get "authority" to criticize someone else. I don't think you need authority just be able to communicate your "fair" criticisms. That's where your point comes in. When I was a postdoc everybody kiss the bottom of Dr. Rasmussen, Head of the IMMAG, so no one would ever question him. Well I guess I'm too stupid to know better because I was always in his face arguing about some ion channel or cell signaling pathway-I'd bring him articles to support my criticisms. Now he's one of the smartest people I"ve ever met and I had huge respect for the man, but I guess I'm just a contrary SOB at times and love to argue with people about some things if it's different from what I think or read. Now I had no authority to do so-I was just a postdoc, but he actually loved I wasn't a brown nose and would argue with him. Yep we became friends and he would kick out department heads when he saw me in the hall with a handful of papers to discuss something new. He passed from Alzheimer's sadly. Crap what was I talking about-Oh authority. I don't think you need that just make a cogent argument (which I struggle with admittedly) and defend your criticism-also accept you might be wrong. Oh yeah then there's karma which always seems to bite my venomous tongue to teach me a lesson.
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Really juicy thread. Everybody judges, it's a survival mechanism and deeply rooted. If a person says they don't judge, then they don't even know themselves. Doing it publicly is definitely risky. It's so hard to walk the balance of being PC but yet still want to share something drumming related...that's touchy in this PC world.

My 2 cents...taken from myself when I was younger... is that the people Bo speaks of are merely in the thick of the show off stage that I'm willing to bet over 90% of drummers...especially young drummers...go through. I certainly did. It took years for me to realize that I had to just relax and simplify. It literally took me 40 years (with a 20 year break in the middle) to get my head straight and especially my dynamics happening. I played too loud right after my break. I know for sure people I still see today looked at me and shook their head back then, and it makes me shudder, but whatever. No excuses. I got past it, thank you recorder.

Plus the younger generations of today live in a k0m-PL3te-LeE different culture than the one most of us here grew up in. It's hard for me to relate.
I definitely feel myself adopting a get off my lawn attitude at times but I try and realize it and lighten up. I have to allow people to fall prey to the same pitfalls I blindly fell into.
 
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GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
See making a cogent argument so "I" agree OldSkoolSoul-I especially agree one video doesn't really tell you much. I was just making a point of the "authority" aspect-I thought that came off as funny. As far as egos and comparisons I agree and it's a fool's errand. I had two older brothers growing up that because we went to same schools and had same teachers they'd inevitably compare me to them. I hated that. Oddly enough I found myself comparing myself to my two brothers at one point but realized the folly thankfully. I do want to be critical in finding a good drum teacher. I'd sincerely like to know how to judge a drummer when looking for a good drum teacher? I've played a long time and wouldn't teach ten year olds. So I wonder if time tells me anything. A formal music educations is impressive but I know self-educated can be just as impressive. A young player demonstrating chops as a promotion video as a teacher would make me wonder. I'm just at a loss-do you just kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince/princess? Maybe I should just start a thread with the question, but I think his comments hit home if I were to judge some teacher from videos-do I even know what to look for.-would chops impress me more than musical skill to fit in? Anyways since both of Bo's comments ended with a Flame suit comment I took it as bit of tongue and cheek as intentionally starting some play. Like lighting a stink bomb and walking out of the room LOL. Still if your only way to learn drums was watching YT videos I think you'd be one confused person.
 
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cbphoto

Gold Member
Well, I’ll come out of the closet:

I judge peoples’ drumming all the time. And if a drummer’s show-off video has a single cut to another camera angle, it’s “Nope, he faked it.” And I don’t care if I’m wrong. It’s so easy to manipulate digital content now.

Do I care if I play at righteous pro-level playing as a requirement to judge others’ playing? Nope. I either like it or I don’t.

It’s an art form. It either attracts me or repulses me.

And social media? Let’s be clear: Facebook is designed to manipulate you and track you. Sure, you can find old girlfriends and such, but that’s the bait.

Now for a commercial break to enjoy some fine cymbal work:

 

TMe

Senior Member
I have noticed that... ...drummers are a likable lot.
I've never found that. Maybe I've just had bad luck, but most drummers I've met IRL are like my cat. She thinks she's the Highlander - "There can be only one!" How dare anyone else try to be a cat? She's great with people and dogs, but other cats must die.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Awe this is engineered "drama" I think posters get bored and start busting peoples chops (hey that's a funny play on words). We've lost a lot of colorful characters over the years who made some threads "epic" so we have to make up crap now. I think I'm going to take a new strategy and be argumentative on every thread so maybe we can rekindle that ole magic. Rather than post videos of me playing-I'm gonna buy a bunch of high end drum kits that I never play and I just talk about them LOL. Everybody stinks on DW-there threw down the gauntlet. And I've only seen a few videos of regular posters so I only know a handful can actually play the drums. Only one plays well-and that's "ME"-I only get criticism because of "ENVY". LOL. I love this place-I wish some of the ole characters would return.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
That's me. I show up early. I maintain and distribute set lists. I book gigs. I keep things organized. Oh - and I also play the basic required grooves behind the band. Sometimes at gigs I may go through a song without ever doing a fill: just a change in cymbals as the song changes from instrument to instrument or from vocals to instrument solo break. There are a few songs where they give me "solos" but they're very rudimentary. I ain't Rich or Bonham.

Sometimes in a place like GC they'll be a young dude (teenagers up through early 20's) laying down a wicked solo of sorts. The meter is all over the place. I always wonder how they'd do playing behind a band where you rarely get to do that kinda work. Bo's question: can they hold down a 2/4 backbeat? Shuffles? Or a clave? Or a swing? And - play it and mix it with band so you're highlighting and accenting what band is doing? But then I would probably think same thing of Rich or Bonham if they were in the store just laying into a solo lol.

I think that's 90% of the reason I keep getting gigs. I'm definitely not a 'chops master' but I love laying down a good backbeat.

I think the other 10% of the reason is I show up to rehearsal.

It's kind of amazing how it boils down to that: show up and lay down a groove.
 
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