Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't get nostalgic over things that never worked good in the first place. Flat base to me conjures worry and desire for something better.

Lets all wear Nehru shirts and medallions while we're at it.

Yea, that didn't work either lol.
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
I'm going to throw a wrench into the whole works.

I have a full set of Atlas classic stands (some flat base Gibraltar stands too).
One straight Atlas, two boom, a mini boom arm on a clamp, snare drum stand, hihat stand AND the bass drum pedal...the one with no bottom plate.

Not one 'stability' issue whatsoever. I gig three times a month. I play a variety of styles and use cymbals from 14" to 22" on the FB stands. I am not a basher but I can hit hard when needed.

I bought the full set because I wanted an alternative to the Yamaha 700 series hardware I usually gig with. I wanted an 'All American' kit (and I'm a Canadian!) + hardware + cymbals. I bought the Gretsch '57 kit and thought the Atlas Classic and Zildjian K cymbals would be a cool combo.
The Atlas classic hardware is markedly lighter than my 700 series kit, and it fits into my ProRac hardware bag without having to take it partially apart. 700 series stands - I have to take the cymbal boom apart for it to fit.
I have the following issues with Atlas Classic hardware:

1)The Hihat stand was way out of spec from the factory. The top 'tube' with the cup/disk that supports the bottom hihat was way too long. It put the hihat cymbals way too high, like Travis Barker high. I confirmed the proper length of the top tube with another member here on DW. I had to cut the top tube with a pipe cutter and I also put in a shorter clutch rod.

2)The bass drum pedal is fine - feels good and I get get it where I like it. The beater is very soft and is flattened out after only about 5 gigs on it.
I HATE the fact that I am forced to use a drum key to clamp it on. Arggggg!

3)The threads for the top wing bolt on one of the cymbal stands seems a little rough and it's kinda hard to get the bolt on. I should be able to start it, give it spin and have it turn a few times. It just kinda sticks there.

Other than those minor gripes, I really like the stands. I can see the need for larger heavier duty stands (have a few myself). But also - these are not even a little like the old crappy flat based garbage of days gone by. I am old enough to have had the misfortune to use them. It's what swore me off Ludwig for years and years.

I think to throw them into that same category of flat base = unstable is unfair.
They are fine...just not in extremes perhaps.

P.S. And I also have the Pro Rack deluxe cymbal bag AND the Ahead 24" bag - the Ahead bag is nicer..by a bit. More padding, more room, more dividers. Seems heavier duty.
 
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Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I'm going to throw a wrench into the whole works.

I have a full set of Atlas classic stands (some flat base Gibraltar stands too).
One straight Atlas, two boom, a mini boom arm on a clamp, snare drum stand, hihat stand AND the bass drum pedal...the one with no bottom plate.

Not one 'stability' issue whatsoever. I gig three times a month. I play a variety of styles and use cymbals from 14" to 22" on the FB stands. I am not a basher but I can hit hard when needed.

I bought the full set because I wanted an alternative to the Yamaha 700 series hardware I usually gig with. I wanted an 'All American' kit (and I'm a Canadian!) + hardware + cymbals. I bought the Gretsch '57 kit and thought the Atlas Classic and Zildjian K cymbals would be a cool combo.
The Atlas classic hardware is markedly lighter than my 700 series kit, and it fits into my ProRac hardware bag without having to take it partially apart. 700 series stands - I have to take the cymbal boom apart for it to fit.
I have the following issues with Atlas Classic hardware:

1)The Hihat stand was way out of spec from the factory. The top 'tube' with the cup/disk that supports the bottom hihat was way too long. It put the hihat cymbals way too high, like Travis Barker high. I confirmed the proper length of the top tube with another member here on DW. I had to cut the top tube with a pipe cutter and I also put in a shorter clutch rod.

2)The bass drum pedal is fine - feels good and I get get it where I like it. The beater is very soft and is flattened out after only about 5 gigs on it.
I HATE the fact that I am forced to use a drum key to clamp it on. Arggggg!

3)The threads for the top wing bolt on one of the cymbal stands seems a little rough and it's kinda hard to get the bolt on. I should be able to start it, give it spin and have it turn a few times. It just kinda sticks there.

Other than those minor gripes, I really like the stands. I can see the need for larger heavier duty stands (have a few myself). But also - these are not even a little like the old crappy flat based garbage of days gone by. I am old enough to have had the misfortune to use them. It's what swore me off Ludwig for years and years.

I think to throw them into that same category of flat base = unstable is unfair.
They are fine...just not in extremes perhaps.

P.S. And I also have the Pro Rack deluxe cymbal bag AND the Ahead 24" bag - the Ahead bag is nicer..by a bit. More padding, more room, more dividers. Seems heavier duty.
Well, I wasn't knocking the flat based hardware that hard. I still rather like the look and to some degree for me, they worked. But in my particular situation with people grabbing stuff and moving it from place-to-place, they're not the right tool. In this instance my 17" thin crash took a dive. I think I would cry if my 24" K Light Ride hit the concrete.

As I said, if it was just me setting up in one place for the night, they'd be perfect. But doing festival situations doesn't allow that - you still set up in one place, move it to the stage, then move it off again to pack it up. I haven't done a bar gig or a wedding in a long time. When I do, I'll probably use them again.

But with my even smaller set-up with the Pearl 900/Tama RoadPro stands, the load isn't that heavy. A little bulkier, but the weight difference was just a bit heavier than if I had been carrying the flat based stands. So for me it's not that big of a trade-off. I'd like to make the flat based stands work for me, but there's too many people variables around me for most things I do.

I think I'm quite sold on the Ahead 24" cymbal bag though. I'll get one of those soon.
 

philosafari

Member
Bo,

I've actually thought of completing my own flat-base cymbal vibe.

What size cymbal have you found to be too much for a flat base? I ask because I use a 22" Bounce ride as my main ride.

I currently have it mounted on a Gibraltar Stealth rack along with a 20" flat ride, a cowbell, and sometimes a 17" crash. I'm considering going to all flat-base just to, as you said, complete a vibe. Now I'm wondering it's really worth it.
As the owner of both a 22" Bounce Ride and a Ludwig Atlas flat base stand, I can honestly say that it works quite well and I've never felt like it wasn't sturdy enough.
 

drumhammerer

Silver Member
there's a guy around town that uses all the old original flat base stands, (since he has to have everything vintage), and I swear every time I saw him live, he either broke one of those stands, or knocked one over (none of his crashes were smaller than 22"). Not really a fan of the FB's unless it's going for a vintage vibe. Ironically though, I turn my snare stands into flat base stands by flattening them all the way to the floor, to get them out of the way of the double pedal- but that can be done with any old snare stand (not sure if cymbal stands can do this).
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
Well, I wasn't knocking the flat based hardware that hard. I still rather like the look and to some degree for me, they worked. But in my particular situation with people grabbing stuff and moving it from place-to-place, they're not the right tool. In this instance my 17" thin crash took a dive. I think I would cry if my 24" K Light Ride hit the concrete.

As I said, if it was just me setting up in one place for the night, they'd be perfect. But doing festival situations doesn't allow that - you still set up in one place, move it to the stage, then move it off again to pack it up. I haven't done a bar gig or a wedding in a long time. When I do, I'll probably use them again.

But with my even smaller set-up with the Pearl 900/Tama RoadPro stands, the load isn't that heavy. A little bulkier, but the weight difference was just a bit heavier than if I had been carrying the flat based stands. So for me it's not that big of a trade-off. I'd like to make the flat based stands work for me, but there's too many people variables around me for most things I do.

I think I'm quite sold on the Ahead 24" cymbal bag though. I'll get one of those soon.
I concur Bo, I can see where having other people handle things, and being in a rush...having something more substantial is definitely worth while.
I should have read your first post a little closer. I would would be pissed if one of my K's took a dive. Even a splash.

I have worked on many a 'festival stage' both as a performer and as an audio tech (TV shows with multiple setups/teardowns) with very fast turnarounds - plus you often have small, dark , cluttered spaces backstage to put things. You need all the stability and help you can possibly get in those situations!

Just FYI on the Ahead bag - I have recently seen two slightly different iterations of the same 24" bag - one had 3 thick, rather stiff cymbal dividers inside - and the other (the one I bought) has 5 thinner, pliable cloth-like furry dividers. I don't know if Ahead offers both types, or maybe one was an improvement on the other. If anybody else has one, what are the dividers like?

Neal
 
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Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I knew you'd understand ;)

BTW - I ordered the Ahead bag last night and got notification it shipped out already. I checked it out and they have two versions: one with straps to turn it into a satellite dish backpack, and the other a normal bag with a shoulder strap. I got the regular one. They didn't specify the type of dividers but they said they can be removed. I'll probably only use one since I only carry a ride and a crash. My 15" hats can go in that outside pocket. After 20+ years with a full leather Reunion Blues cymbal bag, which has no dividers, this will be a nice change. I hope it lasts as long ;)
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I have 2 of those Ahead cymbal bags, and I think I got both styles of dividers too.
I can't remember which was first though. I like the heavier plastic-y material dividers better. They won't scratch, and are easier to deal with because they are more stable. I just used the wool type for cymbals I store.

After having the Atlas stuff almost a year now...
Classic hat stand-- I don't play the hats real low (but not "high" either), and I can see how it might not go low enough without a pipe cutting. The rod is a perfect length for me because I sometimes use a ching-ring. It's actually at the height I cut all my DW hat rods down to.
I also got a memory lock with a Atlas wing nut on it. It goes over the top of the legs where they attach. I haven't seen it in pics, but it's a nice extra "stop" for the legs to possibly get loose.
Anyone else get that on the stand?

All of my Atlas wing nuts go on super smooth. I'm really quite impressed by the wing nuts actually.
I originally had 6 straights, but took 3 back and got 3 boom/straights--every single wing nut has worked flawlessly.
The wing nut hanging up was a beef on quite a few of my DW stands though. Got replacement wing nuts and problem solved, but it was a PITA before I got the new ones.

I also HATE that they lamed out and used a key screw for attaching that model pedal (that EvilG has) to the hoop. It's a generic cheap-out IMO.
I got the Atlas Pro version and it's a cool pedal. That one is super easy to get on and off the hoop. I'm selling it though, just didn't like the floating spring deal (same reason I don't dig DW 9000's).

There are kinda more pluses than minuses for me with these Atlas stands, but I wish the tilter was just "straight" up and down rather than sticking out an inch going the opposite way.
I know it's for easy fold up, but I don't EVER fold the tiler down, and it makes it a slight nuisance for placing the stand and cymbal exactly where I want it.
I have used my DW and Gibraltar tilters with the Atlas stand because of that issue, and that works just fine...but it kinda bugs me because I wanna use the stuff "stock" you know?
I waited forever for Ludwig to get great hardware, and they have it now, but little things just don't work the greatest for me.
I know nothing is perfect, but, it's kind of a drag.

I also wish they included that little memory lock for the boom arm on the Classic, like they do for the PRO version. Just because it's a lighter version stand doesn't mean it's the "stripped down budget model"--which it ISN'T because of the price of the things!
And at least have memory locks for all the tube sizes available for people that want them!

I'm kinda leaning toward going back to my mid-weight DW stands, but I'm not sure yet. I need stand therapy hahaha!! I could have a lot worse things to worry about though, so I'm not complaining!
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
Thanks Karl, always interested in your take on anything metal related.
I hereby deem you the resident Drummerworld Hardware Ninja. :)
There may be folks here with more hardware, but maybe none as intimately familiar with every nut, bolt, spring and washer of what you do have.
Cheers.

Neal
 
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