Living Dead Drummer
Platinum Member
Hey gang,
I read this on PIT's myspace page and I thought it might be good for some of you to read. Some of you may have already, it was posted over a year ago, but I like what is says.
So, you want a PRO drummer? (Los Angeles and Big Cities Everywhere!)
You'll find ads just like this all over CraigsList and other websites:
WANTED: Kick-ass drummer!! Must have pro gear and dependable ride. Must be available to rehearse at least 3 nights per week. Professional attitude, awesome chops, and the right look a must. We are a pro rock band with label interest, a new CD and gigs lined up. We just parted ways with our drummer and need a replacement ASAP. SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY!
Let's break this ad down.
WANTED: Kick-ass drummer!! Must have pro gear and dependable ride. This should be a given. Nobody wants a lame drummer, or a drummer with horrible gear, no gear at all, or no transportation. I know those drummers are out there, as I was one of them back in 1986. It was more work, but the rest of the band pulled together to make sure there was a kit in the house. I just got myself to the rehearsals and performances.
So far, they're not telling us much.
Must be available to rehearse at least 3 nights per week. Three nights per week is a lot of time to invest in rehearsal. Musicians who are good do not need this much band rehearsal. As a musician, regardless of the instrument, I rehearse on my own at least every other day. Also, I rehearse with my bands once per week. A band that is gigging steadily only needs to rehearse either once per week or whenever they're adding a new song or changing something about their show. Yes, the show needs to be rehearsed as well.
Professional attitude, awesome chops, and the right look a must. Again, this doesn't tell us too much. Posters of ads like this typically include their look, influences, and so on. Make sure you have what they want, if you are really interested. Read on.
We are a pro rock band with label interest, a new CD and gigs lined up. They might be a rock band, and they might have a CD, but that's it. Ask them for a gig schedule and chances are good that you won't get one. Mention of "label interest" is just to get the inexperienced musicians excited. If a label is interested, they sign the act. End of discussion. This is just a carrot to stick in front of your face in order to get you excited so that you'll join their band without asking questions or negotiating your position.
We just parted ways with our drummer and need a replacement ASAP. This is where things get touchy. A band that is in this situation (combined with label interest, new CD, and other things) probably let their current drummer go. This happens when the band starts to talk about money. They think that if they fire the drummer (the one who wrote the parts for the songs and played on the recordings), they can potentially have a bigger cut at the end. It is perceived that the drummer doesn't write music, so (s)he shouldn't get writing credits. This couldn't be further from the truth, as the drummer writes his or her part to fit the song and deliver it in an appropriate manner. Bands like this are looking for a rube to work for cheap or free.
SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY! I have always been amused by this. Even if you really want "serious" inquiries only, you'll still get lots of undesirables responding.
Now, here is what these bands are not thinking about.
Most bands that are playing (at a minimum) the local circuit are not doing it for their health. They want to make a living making music. And if they don't have to pay one of the members, all the better. I have seen it time and time again, where a band will play a gig, and then only one or two members collect the money and keep it quiet. They will do this behind the drummer's back (or any other member who is being ripped off), and then be a "bro" to the person's face.
I recently encountered a 17-piece band where only THREE members are being paid. Why? In this situation, the 3 members are being paid because they no only fulfill needed positions, but they won't do it for free.
If you are a drummer, and you want to make a living playing drums, then you need to start charging.
How do you do this?
My favorite approach is to audition first, and then discuss money later. I doesn't matter if it's just gas money to get to rehearsals and $100 per gig, it still has to be discussed. What you cannot do is join a band and then start demanding money later. It won't happen.
There is a phrase out there that is thrown around. That phrase is "music business." While people will talk about the "music" aspect of it all, they will more than likely neglect the "business" aspect. Truth be told, music comprises about 20% of the "music business." The rest is pure business.
Sure, that band needs a drummer. You know what you bring to the table. Do you know what THEY bring to the table for YOU? Discuss it and negotiate before joining. You'll be glad you did.
BANDS, if you need a drummer, consider the following:
Consider what's in it for THEM: Sure, you need a drummer to record, gig and find success. Are you planning on ripping them off, or throwing them in the garbage when another drummer shows up? How would YOU feel if someone did this to YOU? Have consideration for your fellow musicians. It's a small world, and everyone knows everyone. Your reputation will precede you. Move forward with caution.
Make an offer: Maybe you can't afford to pay a drummer. Offer them a piece of the action. Have a contract available and ready. Or offer them something else. Maybe the drummer you are hiring just wants a place to hit the skins after hours. Offer them a key to the lockout and a schedule of available times where they can do their thing. Sometimes a barter like this will work.
Remember that auditions go both ways: You and your band are not the end-all to the world of bands. It's another opportunity, or maybe a flash in the pan. Or maybe nothing. Be humble and remember that this band member you're auditioning (regardless of instrument) is showing up to help you. If they don't like you or your music, they will pass.
Be fair and honest: Again, your reputation precedes you and word gets around. If you are not paying anyone in the band, or if you're paying some but not all, then you're asking for trouble. There are special circumstances. But generally, take care of these people. After all, you're building your success upon their backs and they don't stand to make what the project owner/leader will rake in. As the old music biz saying goes, pay your acts enough that they don't ask questions.
Have some questions ready: Is this drummer a pro or a hobbyist? Do they have a day job, or are they depending on money from gigs to survive? Prepare a list of questions to ask them. The person auditioning should also prepare questions. Getting these answers will ensure that you're getting the right person for the job. Even if they are amazing, it would stink if they left because the manager at their day job decided to transfer them to a different city.
Be professional: Make sure you're prepared. Send them material ahead of time. Show up early and be prepared for their arrival. Get to the point when having discussions or making requests. Don't whisper with existing band mates or create a hostile environment, unless you want them to walk out. Remember that "pro" is short for "professional."
Remember that the phrase "music business" contains the word "business": You consider yourself and your band to be "pro?" Are you interested in getting into the music business? Be prepared to talk business. Drummers must beware of situations where the band leader, lawyer or manager says things like, "You worry about the music part, and let me take care of the business part." What this means is that you can make music, and the other party will make themselves rich. Do business with each other in the same way that you do business with everyone else.
What does "Pro" mean?: The word "Pro" is short for "Professional." If you are not paying, then you are not worthy of having a professional associated with your project.
Finally, a note to all the drummers out there.
When you jump into a series of gigs for free, you're undermining your own future. If everybody is willing to put it out there for free, then nobody's going to make anything of it. Sure, I know you have to take risks, especially with start-ups. If you're starting your own band and trying to make something of it, then that's one thing.
It's another thing, however, when you go joining band after band, lugging gear around, expending, gas, money, time and expertise into "pro situations" where they're not paying anyone.
If you are entering into a pro situation, then you should be entering a situation where you are paid.
If you are not getting paid, you are not a pro. You are also not a hired gun.
If you are not on the songwriting credits, publishing, etc., then you are not a band member.
If you are showing up and playing for free with no promises, then you are a hobbyist who does it for fun, an amateur, or you're trying to make it with your band (whatever that means to you). Do not label yourself or your situation as pro. You can have a professional attitude, but you are not a pro.
When I play, I do it for pay, for a cut of the action, to promote my own music, or to do a favor for a close friend who needs drummer help. The last thing I'm ever going to do is run around wasting every resource in my life to help out someone who does not have my best interests at heart. You will know what I mean if you ever end up in a band, and the leader openly admits that if an agent was interested in him/her, but not the band, he/she would bail out in a heartbeat and fend for themselves.
It's time for YOU to fend for YOURSELF.
DRUMMERS! Just say NO to playing free gigs for bands that are not paying you, or in bands where you have no vested interested. You've worked hard to acquire your talents. Stand up for yourselves! ro
I read this on PIT's myspace page and I thought it might be good for some of you to read. Some of you may have already, it was posted over a year ago, but I like what is says.
So, you want a PRO drummer? (Los Angeles and Big Cities Everywhere!)
You'll find ads just like this all over CraigsList and other websites:
WANTED: Kick-ass drummer!! Must have pro gear and dependable ride. Must be available to rehearse at least 3 nights per week. Professional attitude, awesome chops, and the right look a must. We are a pro rock band with label interest, a new CD and gigs lined up. We just parted ways with our drummer and need a replacement ASAP. SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY!
Let's break this ad down.
WANTED: Kick-ass drummer!! Must have pro gear and dependable ride. This should be a given. Nobody wants a lame drummer, or a drummer with horrible gear, no gear at all, or no transportation. I know those drummers are out there, as I was one of them back in 1986. It was more work, but the rest of the band pulled together to make sure there was a kit in the house. I just got myself to the rehearsals and performances.
So far, they're not telling us much.
Must be available to rehearse at least 3 nights per week. Three nights per week is a lot of time to invest in rehearsal. Musicians who are good do not need this much band rehearsal. As a musician, regardless of the instrument, I rehearse on my own at least every other day. Also, I rehearse with my bands once per week. A band that is gigging steadily only needs to rehearse either once per week or whenever they're adding a new song or changing something about their show. Yes, the show needs to be rehearsed as well.
Professional attitude, awesome chops, and the right look a must. Again, this doesn't tell us too much. Posters of ads like this typically include their look, influences, and so on. Make sure you have what they want, if you are really interested. Read on.
We are a pro rock band with label interest, a new CD and gigs lined up. They might be a rock band, and they might have a CD, but that's it. Ask them for a gig schedule and chances are good that you won't get one. Mention of "label interest" is just to get the inexperienced musicians excited. If a label is interested, they sign the act. End of discussion. This is just a carrot to stick in front of your face in order to get you excited so that you'll join their band without asking questions or negotiating your position.
We just parted ways with our drummer and need a replacement ASAP. This is where things get touchy. A band that is in this situation (combined with label interest, new CD, and other things) probably let their current drummer go. This happens when the band starts to talk about money. They think that if they fire the drummer (the one who wrote the parts for the songs and played on the recordings), they can potentially have a bigger cut at the end. It is perceived that the drummer doesn't write music, so (s)he shouldn't get writing credits. This couldn't be further from the truth, as the drummer writes his or her part to fit the song and deliver it in an appropriate manner. Bands like this are looking for a rube to work for cheap or free.
SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY! I have always been amused by this. Even if you really want "serious" inquiries only, you'll still get lots of undesirables responding.
Now, here is what these bands are not thinking about.
Most bands that are playing (at a minimum) the local circuit are not doing it for their health. They want to make a living making music. And if they don't have to pay one of the members, all the better. I have seen it time and time again, where a band will play a gig, and then only one or two members collect the money and keep it quiet. They will do this behind the drummer's back (or any other member who is being ripped off), and then be a "bro" to the person's face.
I recently encountered a 17-piece band where only THREE members are being paid. Why? In this situation, the 3 members are being paid because they no only fulfill needed positions, but they won't do it for free.
If you are a drummer, and you want to make a living playing drums, then you need to start charging.
How do you do this?
My favorite approach is to audition first, and then discuss money later. I doesn't matter if it's just gas money to get to rehearsals and $100 per gig, it still has to be discussed. What you cannot do is join a band and then start demanding money later. It won't happen.
There is a phrase out there that is thrown around. That phrase is "music business." While people will talk about the "music" aspect of it all, they will more than likely neglect the "business" aspect. Truth be told, music comprises about 20% of the "music business." The rest is pure business.
Sure, that band needs a drummer. You know what you bring to the table. Do you know what THEY bring to the table for YOU? Discuss it and negotiate before joining. You'll be glad you did.
BANDS, if you need a drummer, consider the following:
Consider what's in it for THEM: Sure, you need a drummer to record, gig and find success. Are you planning on ripping them off, or throwing them in the garbage when another drummer shows up? How would YOU feel if someone did this to YOU? Have consideration for your fellow musicians. It's a small world, and everyone knows everyone. Your reputation will precede you. Move forward with caution.
Make an offer: Maybe you can't afford to pay a drummer. Offer them a piece of the action. Have a contract available and ready. Or offer them something else. Maybe the drummer you are hiring just wants a place to hit the skins after hours. Offer them a key to the lockout and a schedule of available times where they can do their thing. Sometimes a barter like this will work.
Remember that auditions go both ways: You and your band are not the end-all to the world of bands. It's another opportunity, or maybe a flash in the pan. Or maybe nothing. Be humble and remember that this band member you're auditioning (regardless of instrument) is showing up to help you. If they don't like you or your music, they will pass.
Be fair and honest: Again, your reputation precedes you and word gets around. If you are not paying anyone in the band, or if you're paying some but not all, then you're asking for trouble. There are special circumstances. But generally, take care of these people. After all, you're building your success upon their backs and they don't stand to make what the project owner/leader will rake in. As the old music biz saying goes, pay your acts enough that they don't ask questions.
Have some questions ready: Is this drummer a pro or a hobbyist? Do they have a day job, or are they depending on money from gigs to survive? Prepare a list of questions to ask them. The person auditioning should also prepare questions. Getting these answers will ensure that you're getting the right person for the job. Even if they are amazing, it would stink if they left because the manager at their day job decided to transfer them to a different city.
Be professional: Make sure you're prepared. Send them material ahead of time. Show up early and be prepared for their arrival. Get to the point when having discussions or making requests. Don't whisper with existing band mates or create a hostile environment, unless you want them to walk out. Remember that "pro" is short for "professional."
Remember that the phrase "music business" contains the word "business": You consider yourself and your band to be "pro?" Are you interested in getting into the music business? Be prepared to talk business. Drummers must beware of situations where the band leader, lawyer or manager says things like, "You worry about the music part, and let me take care of the business part." What this means is that you can make music, and the other party will make themselves rich. Do business with each other in the same way that you do business with everyone else.
What does "Pro" mean?: The word "Pro" is short for "Professional." If you are not paying, then you are not worthy of having a professional associated with your project.
Finally, a note to all the drummers out there.
When you jump into a series of gigs for free, you're undermining your own future. If everybody is willing to put it out there for free, then nobody's going to make anything of it. Sure, I know you have to take risks, especially with start-ups. If you're starting your own band and trying to make something of it, then that's one thing.
It's another thing, however, when you go joining band after band, lugging gear around, expending, gas, money, time and expertise into "pro situations" where they're not paying anyone.
If you are entering into a pro situation, then you should be entering a situation where you are paid.
If you are not getting paid, you are not a pro. You are also not a hired gun.
If you are not on the songwriting credits, publishing, etc., then you are not a band member.
If you are showing up and playing for free with no promises, then you are a hobbyist who does it for fun, an amateur, or you're trying to make it with your band (whatever that means to you). Do not label yourself or your situation as pro. You can have a professional attitude, but you are not a pro.
When I play, I do it for pay, for a cut of the action, to promote my own music, or to do a favor for a close friend who needs drummer help. The last thing I'm ever going to do is run around wasting every resource in my life to help out someone who does not have my best interests at heart. You will know what I mean if you ever end up in a band, and the leader openly admits that if an agent was interested in him/her, but not the band, he/she would bail out in a heartbeat and fend for themselves.
It's time for YOU to fend for YOURSELF.
DRUMMERS! Just say NO to playing free gigs for bands that are not paying you, or in bands where you have no vested interested. You've worked hard to acquire your talents. Stand up for yourselves! ro
