Snares with 2 snare tension adjustments

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I have no experience with these. It seems like why bother. Tension is tension. Right? Why add the extra weight.

Is the ratio of marketing to function like 100 to 0? That would be my first guess, but am keeping an open mind about it.

So let's hear your thoughts on this very important matter :)
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I'm thinking it has to do with stretch. If you center your wires, then engage the snare, the wires are no longer centered but pulled to one side. Being able to adjust from the other side also can keep them centered.

I had one of those dual adjustment Pearl snares. It was fantastic once I figured out how to set it up correctly.

It might also be the simpler answer to a snare system like the Dynasonic.

EDIT: Two adjustable throwoffs also puts half the stress on each throwoff as opposed to one. So if the tensional stress on one throwoff is 4lb, it will be split between the two at 2lb.
 
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beatdat

Senior Member
Yeah, I think dual tension adjustments results in a more consistent response around the drum, but what do I know?

Pretty sure my Pearl free-floating snare drum has them, but I haven’t played it in awhile so I’ll have to check next time I’m at the rehearsal space.
 

MusiQmaN

Platinum Member
I love them on my Yamaha’s.

It makes adjusting so much more easier.

As a matter of fact on my side snare I only have the butt end models on both sides as I don’t use the release on that model.

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It is s also easier for me to switch a snare from a right to left handed model because of the same hole spacing.
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I'm thinking it has to do with stretch. If you center your wires, then engage the snare, the wires are no longer centered but pulled to one side. Being able to adjust from the other side also can keep them centered.

I had one of those dual adjustment Pearl snares. It was fantastic once I figured out how to set it up correctly.

It might also be the simpler answer to a snare system like the Dynasonic.

EDIT: Two adjustable throwoffs also puts half the stress on each throwoff as opposed to one. So if the tensional stress on one throwoff is 4lb, it will be split between the two at 2lb.
I contend that a fixed butt plate will take it's half of the stress just like a 2nd strainer. I contend that no matter what system, the tension on the wires will be even between the plates. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Really, I'll defer to what you guys say...kind of a blind trust, because my brain is telling me "does not compute".

I'm done buying gear so I may never have the chance to actually know.
 

lefty2

Platinum Member
I'm thinking it has to do with stretch. If you center your wires, then engage the snare, the wires are no longer centered but pulled to one side. Being able to adjust from the other side also can keep them centered.
I've had a couple and I wondered about that myself. The only Advantage I see as that after things stretch out a little bit you can realign the snares to Center without turning loose the screws and readjusting the straps or ties.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I contend that a fixed butt plate will take it's half of the stress just like a 2nd strainer. I contend that no matter what system, the tension on the wires will be even between the plates. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Once engaged, absolutely true. But one strainer does all the work to engage, two split the difference. Like one person and a tree pulling a chain tight vs two people pulling it. The tree does no work, the person does. Remove the tree and add a second person and the work is cut in half for the people. So the tension on the wires are the same, the work the strainer does to keep it there is cut in half with two.

Basically what I'm getting at is less work for the strainer equals a longer lasting strainer.
 

Ransan

Senior Member
I have no experience with these. It seems like why bother. Tension is tension. Right? Why add the extra weight.

Is the ratio of marketing to function like 100 to 0? That would be my first guess, but am keeping an open mind about it.

So let's hear your thoughts on this very important matter :)
There are vectors at work when parallel action is at play, unlike the normal throws, if it is stressed at one end, the moment of stress is at the butt plate side. With parallel action ahem Pearl free floaters and Jupiter’s, if they are both pulling along the same axis, they most likely cancel each other out, as MIP states, longer lasting strainers.

Look at the Premier Aces: whether it’s Royal or the Super or the @larryace 👍👌, you’ll find most of those suckers are still with the original strainer (the dual one), and their dual action works internally, (man those things are hella sweet).
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Once engaged, absolutely true. But one strainer does all the work to engage, two split the difference. Like one person and a tree pulling a chain tight vs two people pulling it. The tree does no work, the person does. Remove the tree and add a second person and the work is cut in half for the people. So the tension on the wires are the same, the work the strainer does to keep it there is cut in half with two.

Basically what I'm getting at is less work for the strainer equals a longer lasting strainer.
But, but butt...its an opposing force!

I'll concede to more experience
 

Ransan

Senior Member
Their design was to freely buzz about the axis using the opposing forces to tighten along said axis, and not rest or pressure to dampen the batter head:

As for the early dual throwoffs, the drawback along with the Premiers, is you can’t adjust while playing, in so, I would rate the dyna and the super sensitives bulky system that snagged snare stands, towards the bottom as you can’t ‘on the fly’ adjust them.

Pearl maybe the first dual design engineered to be adjusted while playing which is a technological selling point they note with their Jupiter models in the early to mid 70s not sure though.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
But, but butt...its an opposing force!
I suck at explaining things. Umm, maybe think of a trampoline. The jumping surface is the wires. The frame is the shell. The springs are the strainer.

A normal trampoline has springs all around it. Each one does an equal amount of work. Now get rid of half of them all on one side. Attach the jumping surface to the frame. The remaining springs are now doing twice the work.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I'll preface and jump to short of it-it's a nice luxury. I don't think the SONOR one I have adds much mass though? I like it because while adjusting tension knob to corrrect for sympathetic buzz I’ll find wires will get off center so I flip and simultaneous adjust knobs counter to keep same tension but center it. Which always seems to reduce buzz more and it sounds better- to my ear.
With my 13 in tom tuned high it would buzz my 13 in snare like crazy. I found that if I pointed strainer and adjustment knob at offending Tom it seemed to reduce buzz better. With two I point butt plate knob at Tom and I offset other side with strainer. Which makes it nice because I like my strainer close to left hand and if one strainer-like with my steel snare -it’s over near offending Tom and I have to reach up with right hand. With two my strainer is near left hand as a convenience. That’s just my personal experience fiddling with Buzz - which I finally made peace with it after so many defeats.oh my point two knobs helped with my buzz issues. Geez I meander. And I concede having one knob to fiddle with does the job. Larry I'm surprised you don't have a snare with a butt plate adjustment knob-you've never owned a snare with one by chance?
 
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Ghede

Member
I suck at explaining things. Umm, maybe think of a trampoline. The jumping surface is the wires. The frame is the shell. The springs are the strainer.

A normal trampoline has springs all around it. Each one does an equal amount of work. Now get rid of half of them all on one side. Attach the jumping surface to the frame. The remaining springs are now doing twice the work.
Man, I usually like what you write, but this is really making my eyes bleed!:eek:

Sticking to your trampoline example, the only way the remaining springs would do twice "the work" (a.k.a. experience twice the force) is if you don't directly connect the jumping surface to the frame (assuming that you still jump... ehm OK never mind, let's keep it basic)! In your example springs would not see much because of the very different stiffness between the springs and the direct connection.

Going back to the tree example. If you pull 4 lbs, the tree holds 4 lbs back. It will hold exactly any force you exert until it breaks. You can of course substitute the tree with a wall or a person. It won't change the amount of force you pull with (as long as they are capable to keep up).
(y)
 

dboomer

Senior Member
What works for me are the Rhythm Tech Active snares. The snares are pretensioned so the throw-off has only to pull them up against the head. A low tech answer to Dynasonic or SuperSensitive (or even Trixon).

I wish they weren’t discontinued.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Man, I usually like what you write, but this is really making my eyes bleed!:eek:

Sticking to your trampoline example, the only way the remaining springs would do twice "the work" (a.k.a. experience twice the force) is if you don't directly connect the jumping surface to the frame (assuming that you still jump... ehm OK never mind, let's keep it basic)! In your example springs would not see much because of the very different stiffness between the springs and the direct connection.

Going back to the tree example. If you pull 4 lbs, the tree holds 4 lbs back. It will hold exactly any force you exert until it breaks. You can of course substitute the tree with a wall or a person. It won't change the amount of force you pull with (as long as they are capable to keep up).
(y)
I'll try it this way. Take a spring scale. Hook it to the ceiling. Now put a 10lb weight on it. It reads 10lb. Now hook a second spring scale to the first and again put a 10lb weight on it. Each spring scale will read 5lb. One cannot concede any force to the other in either direction, they distribute the force evenly. The two strainers are doing the same thing. That's what I'm trying to say.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Wow Mr Polack I think you just invented the trampoline drum head-which will be made of mylar at snare bearing edge and center but a ring of viscoelastic material-acting as a "spring"-just on inside of drum head. Should eliminate overtones and ping. Make of a viscoelastic material when you hit it hard or higher frequency it stiffens (so more crack and higher pitch) but if lesser force and play more growl and lower pitch. That's my hypothesis effect your drum head will produce-that or a complete "poof" and no sound-you've just invented a new silent head LOL.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Wow Mr Polack I think you just invented the trampoline drum head-which will be made of mylar at snare bearing edge and center but a ring of viscoelastic material-acting as a "spring"-just on inside of drum head. Should eliminate overtones and ping. Make of a viscoelastic material when you hit it hard or higher frequency it stiffens (so more crack and higher pitch) but if lesser force and play more growl and lower pitch. That's my hypothesis effect your drum head will produce-that or a complete "poof" and no sound-you've just invented a new silent head LOL.
So then could we make a head the same way that safety glass is made? The gridded layer between act as the springs so we can still tension the center?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I'll try it this way. Take a spring scale. Hook it to the ceiling. Now put a 10lb weight on it. It reads 10lb. Now hook a second spring scale to the first and again put a 10lb weight on it. Each spring scale will read 5lb. One cannot concede any force to the other in either direction, they distribute the force evenly. The two strainers are doing the same thing. That's what I'm trying to say.
I'm not understanding why a fixed butt plate and a 2nd strainer...why wouldn't they both have the exact same force on them? A strainer acts exactly like a fixed butt plate when it's not being adjusted. Right?

In my mind, with what you are suggesting, is that if I had snare wires tensioned, and I unbolted the fixed butt plate while under tension...of course the tension would disappear. If what you say is true, then you would not need an opposing force. It's not adding up in my head. I'm not getting what you're saying.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Seems you'll always be tensioning and pulling on a fixed end when adjusting a knob? If you adjust both simultaneously they both separate and pull on fixed ends?
 

dboomer

Senior Member
I'll try it this way. Take a spring scale. Hook it to the ceiling. Now put a 10lb weight on it. It reads 10lb. Now hook a second spring scale to the first and again put a 10lb weight on it. Each spring scale will read 5lb. One cannot concede any force to the other in either direction, they distribute the force evenly. The two strainers are doing the same thing. That's what I'm trying to say.
Only your readings change. But you still have the same force on the 10lb weight 😀
 
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