Snare-side hoops don't fit on Ludwig SS snare?

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I nabbed a '79 Ludwig LM411 Super Sensitive snare last night for $100 on Craigslist. It's in great shape and cleaned up really nicely.

However, once I got the snare-side hoop off, I couldn't get it back on. It doesn't fit between the SS throwoff and the shell, on that side. I'm guessing someone squeezed it in there to get it on, in the first place. The amount of force it'd require to do this would surely bend the hoop or damage the hardware and/or shell.

The shell is definitely round and it's not bent where the SS hardware is mounted, it all looks perfectly normal.

Do I need some sort of special hoop for this drum and maybe the original owner wasn't using a stock hoop?

I also pulled out a 2.3mm that I had sitting around and it fits even worse (can't even get the edge of it it between the rim of the head and the SS throw.)

Any ideas?
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
No, not a thing wrong w/ the throw or the shell around it, where it's mounted. This makes no sense to me...I'm completely baffled. It's not as if the SS was installed after-market - it all looks completely normal and exactly like every photo I've compared it to, on the web.

Here's a whole slew of pics. Note the pics w/ the head on, and how little space there is between the throw and the rim of the head. I measured the shell several times - nearly perfect roundness...any minuscule error was likely from an unsteady hand.



















 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Zam? Come on man....admit it, you killed someone called Ludwig in a past life didn't you?
I just cannot believe your current luck with anything coming out of Monroe.

Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the SS, so can't offer anything. Just thought it was worth noting that you have my sympathy. You've been stiffed repeatedly with Luddy gear. I've just never heard of this before.


Sell it for $150
lol......if you're ever in Oz and in need of a job, I have one for you.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Zam? Come on man....admit it, you killed someone called Ludwig in a past life didn't you?
I just cannot believe your current luck with anything coming out of Monroe.

Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the SS, so can't offer anything. Just thought it was worth noting that you have my sympathy. You've been stiffed repeatedly with Luddy gear. I've just never heard of this before.
I KNOW, RIGHT!? What in THE hell did I do to deserve this curse? I'm past superstitious and have swerved right into the paranoid lane!
 

gwbaker

Senior Member
Zam.... that looks like the reso side hoop. It has the wide snare gate. Are you absolutely sure that the shell is in round? G
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Zam.... that looks like the reso side hoop. It has the wide snare gate. Are you absolutely sure that the shell is in round? G
Absolutely sure. You'll notice the measuring tape on the chair - I checked it a few times. The shell is round. It wasn't dropped on the throw or anywhere else, not even a slight dent...anywhere.

I tried a brand spankin' new Gibraltar 2.3mm triple flange hoop (leaning against the chair in the photos) and it's exactly the same. I measured both hoops.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
And yet..it WAS on the drum just fine?
It had obviously been crammed on there. I had to give it a good pull to get it off. I assumed the hoop was out-of-round. I can't get it back on there, I tried. I think the rod that holds the throw off in place was what kept the shell from getting bent out of shape, when the previous owner crammed the hoop on there.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Rx-

Take 4 enchiladas extra salsa, one San Miguel Dark, siesta, try again.
As good as that sounds, I like the $150 better, I think. Better yet, getting my $100 back and being done w/ this thing. What a disappointment!

Any chance there's a riser that I could put underneath the throw to give me some wiggle room, to fit the hoop down in there? If I had an extra 1/8" on each side, that sucker would fit perfect.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
What about using something like this?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100574988&navFlow=3&keyword=rubber+sheet&langId=-1&searchRedirect=rubber+sheet&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean@6355dc48&ddkey=Search

I could cut to fit the throw. If I can't find 1/8" thick, I could stack 2 (or 3 if it compresses once tightened) and I might have enough room?

The curse must be broken...
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
No WAY!!!

The curse must be broken!

Try some small nylon spacers. They come in 1/8 depths and the hole for the screw comes in different sizes too. A good hardware store should have them in those pull out drawers. And since it's nylon and small, they won't mar the finish, or really deaden the sound at all. Then all you'd need are new slightly longer screws.

I think SS snares came with different bottom hops than the "regular" style. That's what I remember anyway from pics. I'll check a catalog and post a pic if I find it.

Good luck!!!
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
So was it stressed when you took it off, or did the bottom hoop come off easy without warning?
It had clearly been shoved down onto the edge to fit. It took some effort to pull it off. Strangely enough - the hoop is still round, after the stress.

I'm a fairly big, strong guy...I *did* try to get it back on...I'm afraid I'd damage something if I used more force. I'm amazed the hoop AND the shell were damaged. Even if I could get it on, it'd be so squeezed that I doubt the bottom head would tune properly.
 

eamesuser

Silver Member
The weird thing is that it looks like the ear holes on the hoop line up correctly with the t-rod receivers on the lugs,I think you could try the the spacer gasket fix without to much expense before going through the whole p.i.a. return process
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
No WAY!!!

The curse must be broken!

Try some small nylon spacers. They come in 1/8 depths and the hole for the screw comes in different sizes too. A good hardware store should have them in those pull out drawers. And since it's nylon and small, they won't mar the finish, or really deaden the sound at all. Then all you'd need are new slightly longer screws.

I think SS snares came with different bottom hops than the "regular" style. That's what I remember anyway from pics. I'll check a catalog and post a pic if I find it.

Good luck!!!
Anything you could find out would be greatly appreciated, man! If you can get me a part number for a special hoop, I'd be all over that. The base of the throw is pretty broad, I doubt those little round nylon spacers would work. I'd need sheet rubber or a plastic riser, I think.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
The weird thing is that it looks like the ear holes on the hoop line up correctly with the t-rod receivers on the lugs,I think you could try the the spacer gasket fix without to much expense before going through the whole p.i.a. return process
They definitely line up, it's not that the hoop is too big for the drum. I think the gasket idea might work...maybe I'll pick up a sheet of rubber tonight and make some.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
Hmmmm...looked and nope, the hoops are the same as the one you have, but there IS a spacer part that goes on the butt end. If that part is missing, you'd have a problem.

I'll email you the parts catalog I have. The SS strainer is on page 22. At least you can look at it and see if anything is missing.
I'm kinda wondering about a spacer because then, the strainer wires might not fit.

Perplexing.
 
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