Snare hugely out of round....

AJ3000

Silver Member
Further to my 'busting the reso head' thread yesterday, I have stripped the drum to find that it is has a huge flat spot on the shell, almost half an inch depressed in. It wasn't like it when I bought it in January, but I'm bummed to say the least. Could this be due tithe extremes of weather we have had in the UK and me being pretty much constantly on the road? My drums tend to live in a van if I'm out very night.

Please, someone invent the indestructible drum kit!!!! (Andy and Bill, I'm looking your way!!!!)
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Have you got a picture? What kind of snare is it?
I'm on the road at the moment, so I'm only mobile and can't upload a picture. It's an SJC 14x6 maple (it's a really thin shell too, I think only 6 ply)

You can see it clearly at arms length with a naked eye. It covers over 2 lugs, and at its worst point is almost you can see almost 1cm of airspace between the hoop and the shell. The indent maybe goes 6-7cm around the drum.

Gutted.
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
That's probably what I'll do. I think I'll go in more with a 'is there anything I can do to remedy this' course of action though, as it I'm 99% sure it wasn't like this when I got it. SJC are a great company, and I genuinely reckon it's happened after the fact. If it is a manufacturing defect (with the Keller shell) then I don't think it was knowing on their part. Still, they might be able to help me!
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Please, someone invent the indestructible drum kit!!!! (Andy and Bill, I'm looking your way!!!!)
Indestructible is easy, indestructible & sounds good is a different matter :)

I'm not quite getting this, have you dropped it? Any damage or impact evidence on the hoop? If it's not impact/crush damage, then there must be a shell manufacturing issue. Keller shells are consistently good, so an issue would be unusual, but not unheard of. Need more info! When you're off tour, send me some pictures, & I'll advise from there :)
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Thanks Andy.

It has not been dropped or anything, in fact, it usually travels with me rather than in with all the other gear. It's only dropped off on the resonant side too. I'm back home for 2 days as of tomorrow and I'll try and get some pics up then.
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Emailed SJC and Mike responded (at what must've been before 7am in America!) with the usual exemplary customer service the give. I'm getting pics over ASAP and hopefully we can get something sorted. I'll keep you posted!
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Ok so I have been in touch with SJC and from the pictures I sent from my phone to Mike he is adamant is has been caused by a tuning issue.

I have been playing for about 7 years, have always tuned the same way and have never encountered anything like this before. I honestly wouldn't think that a slight tuning discrepancy across such a thin head could pull a drum that far out of round in such a short space of time.

Is this even possible? Could it be linked to the resonant heads busting and me finishing the gig on a drum with a torn underside head?

Literally want to eBay all my gear and just give up now. So gutted.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Ok so I have been in touch with SJC and from the pictures I sent from my phone to Mike he is adamant is has been caused by a tuning issue.

I have been playing for about 7 years, have always tuned the same way and have never encountered anything like this before. I honestly wouldn't think that a slight tuning discrepancy across such a thin head could pull a drum that far out of round in such a short space of time.

Is this even possible? Could it be linked to the resonant heads busting and me finishing the gig on a drum with a torn underside head?

Literally want to eBay all my gear and just give up now. So gutted.
Don't despair, & take so much to heart. I know it's disappointing, but it's a drum, not a limb :) Send some pictures (by PM, or my private email if you wish), & I'll give you my honest opinion. It's impossible to be definitive without sight of the drum, but good quality pictures will get us into the probable zone.

Andy.
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Oh and Andy, it's worse than a limb, cos I can still drum with 3 limbs, but it's much harder without a snare! It's compounded as this was the replacement for my Dunnett that went back with the chewed bearing edge, yet every cheap snare I've had has been fine. I'm a really hard working musician (around 150 shows a year + session stuff) and all I ask for is reliability and a good sound. I'm starting to wonder if it's me......
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, I've seen the pictures, & I don't think I've ever seen a shell that badly warped. It's beyond use, & beyond repair. I'd need to see more pictures, especially side views with the drum assembled, & ultimately, see it in person to get close to a conclusion. I need more answers;

1/ how long have you had the drum?
2/ were there any indications of tuning issues from new?
3/ other than the usual procedure of tensioning the reso head, is there any chance you've tightened it down significantly on one side more than another? (let's say more than 1 - 1.5 full screw turns)
4/ did you seat the head evenly before starting to tension it?
5/ did you inspect the shell for roundness from new?
6/ when you finished a set by replacing the reso head with a tom head, did you crank that tom head very tightly to replicate a thinner reso head?

Here's my very initial thoughts. Causing this sort of damage by even the most uneven tensioning of a snare reso head is difficult to comprehend. Only if the head was placed on the drum, cranked down fully on one side, then tensioned to the max on the other side, can I imagine such a dramatic affect over a short period of time. A Hazy 300 or similar simply isn't capable of that sort of stress over a short period of time. Possibly progressive grossly uneven tensioning over a period of many weeks, + big atmospheric changes, may equate to such damage. I really need as much detail as possible re: timeline, etc.

My gut feeling (& this really has multiple caveats sprinkled all over it), is that the shell may have had a lesser fault from new. Progressively, you've tried to tune out the flat spot. This has subsequently placed a gradually more severe strain on the already weakened shell, & that's been compounded by further tuning adjustments.

Ply shells are inherently very strong, but even in ply, a 6mm un-reinforced (rering) shell isn't suitable for ultra high tensions. I can't see what lug type is being used, but I can see only two mounting points, one on each head end. As the shell weakens, tension on the single mounting point will further encourage the head to be pulled inwards.

Shells are strong because they're round. The moment they're not perfectly round, their strength diminishes hugely. Once they've reached that state, their ability to resist further forces is almost non existent. If a shell's already out of round, then even a moderate force applied unevenly over a long period can equate to serious warping of the shell.

The fact that the shell maintains it's warped shape when the heads are taken off, suggests a number of possibilities. 1/ shell manufacturing defect. 2/ severe variations in atmospheric conditions. 3/ gross & prolonged uneven tension.

Need more info.
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
Ok, I've seen the pictures, & I don't think I've ever seen a shell that badly warped. It's beyond use, & beyond repair. I'd need to see more pictures, especially side views with the drum assembled, & ultimately, see it in person to get close to a conclusion. I need more answers;

1/ how long have you had the drum? around 4 months
2/ were there any indications of tuning issues from new?the reso head was tight in the hoop, but other than that, no
3/ other than the usual procedure of tensioning the reso head, is there any chance you've tightened it down significantly on one side more than another? (let's say more than 1 - 1.5 full screw turns) only if the reso head had broken (had gone floppy, to try and pull a small amount of tension back)
4/ did you seat the head evenly before starting to tension it? yes, I'm pretty pedantic about tuning and seating
5/ did you inspect the shell for roundness from new? I did not. It was an off-the-shelf purchase that was a replacement drum. I took the shops word that it was good.
6/ when you finished a set by replacing the reso head with a tom head, did you crank that tom head very tightly to replicate a thinner reso head? No. As a rule I find a Tom head too thick to resonate properly, so I'd tune as low as possible to try and keep the snares moving

Here's my very initial thoughts. Causing this sort of damage by even the most uneven tensioning of a snare reso head is difficult to comprehend. Only if the head was placed on the drum, cranked down fully on one side, then tensioned to the max on the other side, can I imagine such a dramatic affect over a short period of time. A Hazy 300 or similar simply isn't capable of that sort of stress over a short period of time. Possibly progressive grossly uneven tensioning over a period of many weeks, + big atmospheric changes, may equate to such damage. I really need as much detail as possible re: timeline, etc.

My gut feeling (& this really has multiple caveats sprinkled all over it), is that the shell may have had a lesser fault from new. Progressively, you've tried to tune out the flat spot. This has subsequently placed a gradually more severe strain on the already weakened shell, & that's been compounded by further tuning adjustments.

Ply shells are inherently very strong, but even in ply, a 6mm un-reinforced (rering) shell isn't suitable for ultra high tensions. I can't see what lug type is being used, but I can see only two mounting points, one on each head end. As the shell weakens, tension on the single mounting point will further encourage the head to be pulled inwards.

Shells are strong because they're round. The moment they're not perfectly round, their strength diminishes hugely. Once they've reached that state, their ability to resist further forces is almost non existent. If a shell's already out of round, then even a moderate force applied unevenly over a long period can equate to serious warping of the shell.

The fact that the shell maintains it's warped shape when the heads are taken off, suggests a number of possibilities. 1/ shell manufacturing defect. 2/ severe variations in atmospheric conditions. 3/ gross & prolonged uneven tension.

Need more info.
The drum has double ended tube lugs. My initial feeling was that a Hazy 300 isn't man enough to cause that much damage. It may be manufacturing issues. I don't want to call Mike at SJC a liar (especially as he has been pretty good so far about all of this), but tuning issue seems a little far fetched. He received the same pics as you did.

Thanks again man
 

Soupy

Silver Member
3/ other than the usual procedure of tensioning the reso head, is there any chance you've tightened it down significantly on one side more than another? (let's say more than 1 - 1.5 full screw turns)
only if the reso head had broken (had gone floppy, to try and pull a small amount of tension back)
Couldn't the chronic broken heads be a factor? That can leave you with the head untensioned on one side, partially tensioned on the other. Couple that with a relatively thin shell, and as you keep breaking reso heads, and the shell gets progressively more and more tweaked, which makes you possibly tune with less even tension to get the drum to sound right as the shell starts pulling further out of round.... give it more time and tension...
 

AJ3000

Silver Member
The though has entered my mind, and I can't help but wonder if each is making the other worse....
 
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