Snare Drums: Triple Flanged vs. Die Cast Hoops

JLoveDrums94

Senior Member
Can someone explain the differences in center shot and rim shot sound between triple flanged hoops and die cast hoops? How do the two (triple flanged and die cast hoops) differ in sounds?
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Die casts are heavier, add more mass and therefore provide a little more focus. The triple flanges are more open sounding. Depending on the drum or indeed the head, these differences can vary a little or a lot.
 

porter

Platinum Member
Die-casts also usually provide a louder and more pointed rimshot. As Pocket said, these differences in center tone will generally be more audible the more thin and resonant your heads and shells are, though the rimshot tone isn't affected as much.
 

JLoveDrums94

Senior Member
So, because die cast hoops are thicker and heavier, does that mean that the sound is more "controlled?” And the rim shots would be darker sounding? Because the problem that I think I'm having with my snare drum, is that I want the center shots to be more controlled and less “ringy” and “all over the place.” At the same time, I don’t want to muffle it with tape or something, because that would probably kill my rim shots, which sound too bright to me. So, would die cast hoops help solve this problem? Or is it just a matter of tuning?
 

JLoveDrums94

Senior Member
By the way, the snare drum I'm using is a 14x6.5 COB Rogers Dynasonic, believe it or not. I think maybe it might sound awkward to me because I'm use to playing a 14x5.5 COB Rogers Dynasonic that I had before owning the 14x6.5. Also, the hoops on the 14x6.5 one, are the original hoops that came with the snare drum. So, I dont know if they are 1.6mm or 2.3mm triple flanged. While I do know that I did put a 2.3mm triple flanged hoop on the batter side of my 14x5.5 Dynasonic. Both snare drums use a Clear Remo Pinstripe on the batter side, and a Hazy Remo Ambassador on the bottom.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
J from what you describe, yes you should go die cast. People describe the triple flanged as more open. I describe the sound as less focused. To me the triple flanged are like an out of focus camera, where a rimshot is crystal clear. Dies cast's wrangle all the overtones together and focus them in a narrower freq range, thereby sounding more like they are working together, as opposed to having freqs that are more willy nilly. I don't know if that is an actual fact, that's just how I perceive the die cast sound. On toms, die casts aren't necessary IMO, but on the snare....I have die casts on all my snares. Nothing says rimshot like die casts.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
By the way, the snare drum I'm using is a 14x6.5 COB Rogers Dynasonic, believe it or not. I think maybe it might sound awkward to me because I'm use to playing a 14x5.5 COB Rogers Dynasonic that I had before owning the 14x6.5. Also, the hoops on the 14x6.5 one, are the original hoops that came with the snare drum. So, I dont know if they are 1.6mm or 2.3mm triple flanged. While I do know that I did put a 2.3mm triple flanged hoop on the batter side of my 14x5.5 Dynasonic. Both snare drums use a Clear Remo Pinstripe on the batter side, and a Hazy Remo Ambassador on the bottom.
Part of the problem is the clear pinstripe,which in my opinion,don't belong on snare drums..Try a coated emperor,and tune the reso head up very tight.Dynas are very articulate and sensitive drums ,and will give you that great cracking rimshot when tuned properly.Your other drum,by the way was 5x14.Rogers never made a 5.5 dyna,promise.

I would PM member JohnPloughman who's the resident Rogers expert.I'm sure he has insight into tuning your dyna.It may also be possible,that you might not get the sound you're looking for out of a 6.4 COB drum.

Steve B
 
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Grolubao

Senior Member
For me it really depends on the type of drum. For example Stave drums are already very focused, so they combine perfectly with triple-flanged hoops, some others that are more open benefit a lot from die-cast
 

JLoveDrums94

Senior Member
I think the only die cast replacement for the Dynasonic resonant side hoop, would be those bottom hoops that they used on the Tama Kingbeat and Mastercraft Imperialstar Snare Drums back in the 80s. I don’t know if this is the right page to ask, but where or how do I get those kinds of hoops now?
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Although there are modern replacement die cast hoops for other Tama snare drums,the ones you're talking about with those very deep gates,aren't made by Tama anymore,at least they're not in the parts catalog.They come up on ebay from time to time,in varioius states of condition.There are other brands that made those deep snare side hoops,with those deep gates,like Sonor.

I still think experimenting with heads and tuning,will get you there,and Talking to John Ploughman can't hurt.The man is a walking Rogers encyclopedia,with lots of experience with dynas,which by the way,also need to have that snare mechinism set up properly,much like the Ludwig supersensitive.

Steve B
 

JerryOnDrums

Senior Member
Only tangentially related, but I have a 6.5X14" Supraphonic that I put a set of Yamaha aluminum die-cast hoops on (very light, yet still rigid). I absolutely love the sound of this drum with these hoops. It's like the best mix of zinc die-cast and triple-flanged hoops. Maybe look out on Ebay for a set of these?
 

mandrew

Gold Member
another option is the 3mm triple flanged hoop. Heavier than the 2.3mm, and gives a bit more mass. Yet, not as expensive as the die cast. I like S-hoops too.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
for me it really depends on the drums. Diecast for that focused CRACK sound with less overtones. Triple flange or S hoops if I want the snare to have some more volume and sing a bit more.

Remember, there is a huge difference between what you hear and what the mic hears if you are recording or playing a gig mic'd... Also, more ring isn't bad when there is a band playing. It will help take up more frequency's and cut the mix better.
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
Resurrected five-year-old thread - I wonder if the OP ever resolved his "problem," and if so, how?

After 50+ years of drumming (or a facsimile thereof), I have one of my kits outfitted with all die-cast hoops. The difference in sound is notable, especially on the snare drum. Honestly, "focused" is the only word that pops into my (alleged) mind as a descriptor. The drums seem to produce fewer overtones. The decay may have been shortened just a hair, as well.

Except for the snare, I certainly wouldn't describe the sound with die-cast hoops as "better," just different. Would an audience member notice the difference? No. Not one shred. It's one of those changes that only the guy behind the kit will notice. (With the possible exception of the snare sound, which I think is improved.)

GeeDeeEmm

Photo: Die-cast hoops on rewrapped Slingerland Drums (excepting 13" at rear).

Slingerland House Shots 015.JPG
 
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SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Die cast: Sharp with a strong fundamental, yet articulate overtones, projects well outdoors. Possibly even dark.
Flanged: Soft, consistent, very audible in a studio mix, forgiving to tune. Maybe bright.
 
Part of the problem is the clear pinstripe,which in my opinion,don't belong on snare drums..Try a coated emperor,and tune the reso head up very tight.

Steve B
Totally agree. I tried a clear ambassador on my snare for a few weeks. What a bad choice. I went with a Remo CS and it made a huge difference. Like others said, the die cast are heavier and will dry up the drum a bit but the CS head over a pinstripe will add a lot of focus and kill some of the overtones. I think the same is true of 10 lugs vs 8 .... dries up the drum a bit.
 
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