SNARE DRUM HELP

riddle

Member
about my snare, i want it to sound really fat and solid. I dont like the cha cha cha sounds, snappy cracky or military like snare drums.
Just FATT and deep, i like the thumping sound that resembles a fat rimshot alot.
a little like chad smiths, any idea how i should tune (how tight the btm head and batter head shuld be etc etc). my teacher says changing into remo ambassador would help but im not gona go to the stores soon so please help
 
ohh sorry its tama swingstar mahogany shell snare

as in tune the batter head and back head lose? the same tension? and tighten up the wires? i really hate the fuzzy sounds i like it fat and short.

i've stuck tape all over the resonant head and i clipped a small cloth at the hoops to control the ringing
 
crank the batter and reso down, and then mess around with the snare wire tension..

That's a bit confusing for me as well. Generally if I hear the words "crank it down" I usually think of tightening the head. But the OP is looking for a fat sound so he'd want to bring the pitch down. You'd be loosening the heads to do that.

Back to the OP

Riddle: Are you referencing your target sound from a recording (likie Chad Smith)? I ask that as you may be trying to get a sound that is almost impossible in a live unmiked situation. Also I'm not a RHCP expert but I've heard a few of their recordings and I don't remember any I'd call 'fat'. When I think of a 'fat' snare sound I think of some older recordings like Def Leppard or some of Steve Gadd's early recordings (70's thru '80's). In the case of Def Leppard, they recorded with Mutt Lange who was known for his studio heavy approach, using samples, lots of EQ, gates, compression, etc. Although slightly different in gear (or software) studio technique happens as much or more today on many popular recordings (like metal) than back then. You can drive yourself crazy trying to get those sounds without sound reinforcement and the gear needed.

Having said all that, the typical fat snare sound has been achieved by using an off the shelf, new, single ply coated batter (Remo Ambassador is one) with a good snare side head. Neither of these should be 'stock' heads that shipped with the drum but...use what you have and experiment. Lower the pitch of both heads with the most typical ratio being snare side head higher than batter head. Then experiment with the snare wire tension. It's OK if it's a little 'fuzzy' as most of that fuzz won't be heard a few feet in front of the kit.

You can then try using some dampening (tape, moon gel, etc.) but be careful how much as you will lose some of the highs which are part of this sound. IMO, I do not feel that putting tape on the snare side head is a good practice. It robs the total sound of some needed crispness making a lower tuning sound thuddy and lifeless. Keep in mind that a technique commonly used in the studio is to let the drum sing and be a bit 'fuzzy' and then apply a noise gate to cut the sound shorter on the recording. This is part of that studio magic which we can rarely duplicate live.

I would encourage you to try the above but also to test the sound under realistic circumstances. Much of the sound you hear behind the kit, playing alone with no music is not what it will sound like to an audience or maybe your band members. You could even try having someone hit the snare while a CD is playing over a sound system at a similar volume level to what you'll be playing. If you stand out front while someone hits the snare similar to you, you'll hear reality. If you've never done this it may be very helpful.


HTH

Jim
 
thanks that was great info

well i think i've achieved the sound i want. i loosen the batter head and the btm head like you said so and it did get that pucking thucking sound. i'll remove the tapes when im free. its still a little fuzzy so i stuck a sponge to choke the snares. (CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG) but it sounds great and i feel soo happy.

i've noticed that drums don't sound the same to the audience and the drummer. If its nice to the audience and not to the drummer its kinda disappointing because thats not the sound the drummer is hearing right? How is he gona play well if the sound isnt what he likes and he has to stick with that just to make the audience happy
 
i've noticed that drums don't sound the same to the audience and the drummer.

Yes!

If its nice to the audience and not to the drummer its kinda disappointing because thats not the sound the drummer is hearing right? How is he gona play well if the sound isnt what he likes and he has to stick with that just to make the audience happy

Who are you playing for? If all a drummer does is play in his practice room he can get any sound he wants that pleases him. When you're playing out you're playing for the paying customers, who don't hear (and wouldn't care) what it sounds like from behind the kit.

This is true of pretty much all acoustic instruments, by the way.

If you're miked, you can get the sound you hear from behind the kit out to the audience. But if you're unmiked, lots of things change.

Hearing the unmiked kit from out front will teach you first and foremost that the muffling simply has to go.

If you play with very muffled heads (or external muffling devices), you will hear the attack--but no tone and not much pitch--from your toms, your snare will sound soft and lifeless, and your bass drum may not be heard at all.

For playing live unmiked I keep the toms wide open and tuned for maximum sustain (both batter and reso at the same pitch) the snare wide open (lots of ring--well tuned, it's a pleasant ring) and the bass drum with full reso and nothing in the drum.

The sound from out front is excellent: the toms sound loud and with good pitch differentiation, the snare is loud and lively, and the bass drum can be heard through the band.

If that kind of sound drives you crazy in your practice room you can always throw studio rings on everything and throw a pillow in the bass drum. But the truth is, once you hear your drums for a while as they really sound (without muffling out all that nice tone you paid good money for), you get used to it and it's the overly-muffled sound that will drive you nuts.
 
You want a fat snare sound? My advise: Get a deep maple drum, 6.5 inches or better, tune the batter somewhere in it's lower register, keep the snare side fairly tight, loosen the snares and don't muffle. Tuning is key. Make sure the top head note has complementary frequencies in relation to the snare side note frequencies, a very important mostly unmentioned detail concerning tuning. I have a Pearl Eric Singer signature snare that's 10 plys of maple, about 1/2" thick, and I get the baddest deepest hit you in your chest sound from that puppy. It also sounds great cranked up tight, where I normally play it. It's by far my most favorite snare and I have a 6.5x14 Canopus Zelkova, a 2 year old Ludwig 5x14 black beauty brass shell, a 70's Ludwig 6.5x14 Super Sensitive steel shell, and a Pearl 6.5x14 Sensitone brass shell, and a 6.5x14 thin shelled birch Pearl Masters Studio. Normally I'm a fan of thin shells w/ re rings, but this bitch just flat out delivers.
 
Drumtechdad, bullseye. Muffling simply has to go. The overtones are the life and projection and personality of the drum! Drums must SING! Muffling your drums is like dressing Pam Anderson in a berka ha ha. Drums are so much like women, you have to pay attention to their individual characteristics, tune them eagerly and lovingly, and celebrate them in their natural state, as they are. You can dress them up with different heads, but in the end it's all how you tune them and tension the snares. Then you let them inspire you with their natural beauty. I think I either need to play my drums or nail my girl right about now ha ha
 
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