Single ply batters

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sticks4drums

Guest
Well two ply heads have better attack than single ply heads.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Disagree about the attack factor. IMO, nothing makes that nice slap sound like a clear single ply head. 2 ply heads have more rounded bottom end from the throne, but the quality of tone is inversely proportional to the distance between the drums and the listeners ears, JMO.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Well I have the proof in my basement. Come over and you can hear for yourself. :)
 

EvansSpecialist

Silver Member
Me too, but I wasn't too impressed with the G+'s, so I'm cautious. 7mil heads just dent too easily for me on toms, but work beautifully on my snare batters. If anyone gets hold of the G14's, post here & let us all know how they work out.

Anyone know when they're due? Evansprez?
The G14's should be shipping within the next couple of weeks. Be sure to ask your local music store about them (make sure they're ordering some!).

Cheers
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Hello Evans guy. :) What has more attack, two ply, or single ply?
 

EvansSpecialist

Silver Member
Hello Evans guy. :) What has more attack, two ply, or single ply?
"Attack" is kind of subjective, but generally, two-ply heads offer more attack than a single-ply head. This is often confused with responsiveness (how quickly the head responds to the attack of a stick) which is typically greater with single-play heads. That being said, tuning can often negate these "standards."

Cheers!
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
"Attack" is kind of subjective, but generally, two-ply heads offer more attack than a single-ply head. This is often confused with responsiveness (how quickly the head responds to the attack of a stick) which is typically greater with single-play heads. That being said, tuning can often negate these "standards."

Cheers!
Thank you! :)
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nhzoso

Guest
Am I correct in assuming that all you guys with the 1-ply batters on your toms have 2-ply reso's or are you using 1-ply reso's as well?

I currently have 2-ply over 2-ply on my Yamaha stage customs (birch,falkata,mahogony) and was thinking of trying 1-ply's on the batters.

Then again it's almost time to wake the saturn from it's rest and throw on some Vintage Aquarians that I have been wanting to try also.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Am I correct in assuming that all you guys with the 1-ply batters on your toms have 2-ply reso's or are you using 1-ply reso's as well?

I currently have 2-ply over 2-ply on my Yamaha stage customs (birch,falkata,mahogony) and was thinking of trying 1-ply's on the batters.

Then again it's almost time to wake the saturn from it's rest and throw on some Vintage Aquarians that I have been wanting to try also.
Two ply on the bottom? I don't think many do that. Leave the tops and put singles on the bottom.
 

EvansSpecialist

Silver Member
Am I correct in assuming that all you guys with the 1-ply batters on your toms have 2-ply reso's or are you using 1-ply reso's as well?
The standard tends to be to use a single-ply on the bottom regardless of what's on top. That being said, I've heard some great drum sounds from guys playing larger drums (16" & 18" toms) using two ply batters and resos.

I wouldn't typically recommend using a thicker reso than batter, since it will be tougher to get the reso head to move. In the end, there really aren't too many hard-and-fast rules when it comes to head choice. Experimentation can only get you closer to the answers, right?

Cheers!
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
That being said, I've heard some great drum sounds from guys playing larger drums (16" & 18" toms) using two ply batters and resos.
Well, I can tell you that after running 2 ply over 1 ply on my drums for as long as I've owned them (and a few kits before it), that perhaps the most significant difference in going to single ply was on my 15" and 18" floors. Especially the 18". It's always been very difficult differentiating it from a bass drum-like "thud". With a single ply on there top and bottom, I'm now getting a very round sustained booooom out of it like never before (it's not even close) and I've been rocking this same kit for 12 years.
 

tard

Gold Member
That's not what I hear and read!
2 ply heads remove some resonance which may give the impression that there is more attack plus alot of people hit a 2 ply harder to get more volume and tone which again may give the impression of more attack but a singly ply is going to have a brighter / sharper attack because there is not a second head to absorb the impact. It is the same with people saying 2 ply heads are lower pitched but its because they remove some of the higher frequencies and from behind the kit will trick your ears into thinking its actually lower pitched but from 20 feet away the single plys are going to sound alot fuller and warmer sounding with more attack.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
I just played the proof a second ago in my basement. Even the Evans guy said so. Give it up dude. It's ok to be wrong. It happens to me all the time.
 

kettles

Gold Member
You need to define what you mean by 'attack'. Are you talking about the slap of the stick against the head or the overall punchiness? 2 ply's on my Saturns have a stronger stick sound from my POV behind the kit, but 1 ply's are generally louder, and overall have more 'attack' from out front behind a band. In an unmiced situation, I'm talking about.
 

tard

Gold Member
I just played the proof a second ago in my basement. Even the Evans guy said so. Give it up dude. It's ok to be wrong. It happens to me all the time.
From behind the kit? One of the whole reasons I went to single ply head was because other musicians and sound techs told me the attack was getting lost from the audience point of view, after changing to singly ply I now get comments on the good balance between attack and resonance my kit now has.

http://www.molehillgroup.com/tuning1.htm
From the "choosing the right heads" section:

Single-ply heads have a sharp attack and a good amount of ring, but they aren't as durable as double-ply heads if you're playing really loud and hard. They are good all-around heads and are preferred for most recording and close-mic'd situations.

Double-ply heads have two layers of Mylar. This thicker constructions makes them dryer (less ring), diminishes the attack, and makes them more durable, which is important to hard rock drummers.

http://www.peelerdrumcenter.com/tech_talk_drum_tuning.htm
From "basic drum head selection" section

Single ply drumheads
Tone quality: Crisp stick contact sound, fast responding (the flexibility of a single ply head excites the air inside the drum faster than a thicker, more "lazy" head.
Volume: Thinner heads always seem to be louder, especially in a loud musical setting, because the initial stick contact sound is more apparent, they have more overall "high" overtone content, and their flexibility allows them excite the airspace inside the drum more than a thicker head, all of which help them cut through an ambient threshold of surrounding music.
Overtone content: Thin heads usually contain more high overtones, which give them a crisp, cutting sound.

Double ply drumheads
Tone quality: Double ply heads have a more subdued stick contact sound, and have slower response than single ply heads (double ply heads are a bit "stiffer" than single ply heads therefore a bit more lazy in exciting the air inside a drum when struck).
Volume: Thicker double ply heads have a bit less volume than single ply heads because they have less stick contact sound and less higher harmonic content to contribute to the overall volume (even though most rock drummers prefer them for their durability and lower tonal quality).
Overtone content: Thicker double-ply heads tend to sound lower than single ply heads, not necessarily because they are tuned lower, but because they have less "high" overtone content and the remaining low pitched overtones are what remain to be heard most.

http://www.snaredrumreview.com/snare-drum-guides/snare-drum-head-guide/
From" snare drum head guide"

Single ply
Most factory heads are single ply and the most popular are the Evans G1 heads and the Remo Ambassadors. The sound is crisp on contact and the volume in loud. You’ll notice high overtones from a single ply snare drum head and a piercing attack with excellent projection.
Single ply heads are easier to tune for bright tones and more difficult to tune down for lower, more rumbling notes. The cause of this is the thinner, more flexible single ply construction that moves the air within the snare drum more quickly.

Double ply or 2 ply heads
These are often considered an upgrade because they offer more tuning options, especially on the low end. You don’t get the same sharp overtones, but depending on your style and the musical genre you’re playing, the trade-off might be worth it. Some of the most popular 2 ply heads on the market on the Evans G2 and the Remo Emperor or Pinstripe.
With a double ply head, you’ll notice a slightly dulled attack. Thick 2 ply heads are not as loud and don’t have as much sustain as single ply heads. Again, what you gain on the upside is a more controlled sound that you can tune to your customized preferences.


http://www.ehow.com/info_8350905_drumheads-recording.html

Single-ply heads -- made from a single, thin layer of Mylar -- deliver bright, resonant sound with greater attack, which tends to work with higher tunings

Composed of two layers of Mylar, double-ply heads, provide a softer attack and emphasize low overtones while dampening high ones, favoring low tunings.


http://www.netplaces.com/rock-drums/equipment-guide/choosing-the-right-shell-sizes.htm

You may use either single- or double-ply heads on the tom-toms. If you want more attack and articulation, you should try single-ply heads.
 
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MikeM

Platinum Member
Tard, I totally agree with you on this. I think part of the reason 2-plys get credited for having more attack is because the attack component is proportionally greater on a head with less resonance.

If we're assuming attack is the sound the stick makes when it comes in contact with the head, then it's going to be pretty much the same on both types. It will just seem more prominent on the head that's had it's resonant capabilities reduced. Also, there's no doubt that single ply heads react much faster and there's more richness to the sound. If that counts toward attack, then that puts singles ahead of doubles.

And Sticks, I know what your drums sound like; I've heard you play your white monstrosity and I know that you tune JAW, so understand that it's really hard for me to take anything you say on this with anything other than a grain of salt. It's okay for you to be wrong again. It's what I've come to expect.
 
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