Should I complete this stave shell?

Jidis

Junior Member
Hi,

I've got a couple stave shells I've been waiting to shave down and promised myself I'd set up a better method than my previous router table jig, so I built a simple lathe for it. The first shell is a really thick,heavy red oak 7x14 (initially around an inch thick). I got a bit overzealous on the rounding and managed to shave off way too much. It now has an OD of about 13&5/8". It's also not even consistent from side to side, and is about 13&3/4" diameter on the other side. So all around the perimeter, I'm either a sixteenth or an eighth short of where the head should land depending on what side you're on.

Does anybody have any ideas on what one might expect from that before I waste more time on it? It seems like a double 45° bearing edge on a correctly sized shell (13&7/8"OD) would have a similar effect to a single 45 on something slightly smaller if the peak non-beveled part was about the same thickness. Is 13&5/8 pushing it too far, or should I go ahead and finish it? If I should, what will the eighth inch difference between the two sides do to it (I can always shave the larger side down to 13&5/8")?

Much thanks!
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
The out of round element isn't great, & nor is the undersize element. The two together are quite a way short of ideal. Depending on the source wood, the likelihood is, it will shrink a little further, & being of uneven thickness, the shrink rate will vary around the shell further contributing to your woes. As oak is fairly inexpensive, I'd opt for the firewood route. Even if you do finish it, with your new turning facility, you're always going to be disappointed in it.
 

Jidis

Junior Member
Thanks keep it simple!

To be clear, the shell actually is perfectly round, it's just too small in diameter. It's not however a perfect cylinder, as the diameter of one side is about an eighth inch smaller than the other, but it wouldn't be difficult to shave the larger side down until it was even. The inside of the shell hasn't yet been milled.

George
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
I have a jarrah stave snare that's at least a half inch undersize. The bearing edge curves in to a peak mid shell. No issues with this drum sound wise. The tube lugs are on 6mm spacers to line up with the rims. The builder did it this way so the heads would have 'breathing space' on the outside of the shell.

I say finish the drum but don't lacquer/polish it yet - play it and see what you think. Worse case would be to build a new shell and transfer the hardware across. Best case - it might sound great!
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Turn it down even more to make a 12 or 13 inch tom. That would also make it a thinner shell.
 

Jidis

Junior Member
Yeah, I thought about taking it down to a 13" snare, but I wouldn't want a tom unless I was willing to build a full kit (not really equipped to do that). I think I might do as Morrisman suggests and go ahead and try it before tossing it, but I'll probably kill the taper and make the whole thing 13&5/8" first. I hadn't even considered the lug shimming, but I might make the lugs, so it shouldn't be too difficult. I had wondered whether the displaced "pull" on the head could damage it, but it sounds like that hasn't been a problem for him.

Sad part is, after all this work on the lathe, I'm now thinking of mounting a rail attachment over it, and going right back to the router. I'd still use it for sanding and stuff, but would initially rout off the corners. I'm also not looking forward to trying to rig up a one-sided setup for turning the inside, so I may build a more elaborate router rig and do that the old way too.

Thanks again!

PS- That tapered cylinder thing had me wondering what effect that would have on the internal waves, as similar techniques are often used in studio building to prevent echoes and such. I wonder if it would do anything to deaden it or cut back on ringing, and/or how much difference in diameter there would need to be between the sides for that to happen.
 

Jidis

Junior Member
Well I put a support ticket in to Remo on that issue out of curiosity and got a reply. I don't guess there'd be any reason it was confidential.

The head needs to fit the counter-hoop in order to tune up. Changing the bearing edge dimensions can affect the deflection point which can modify the tone, resonance and tunability. Ideally, contact of the bearing edge should be met at the drumheads collar for best performance. I'd offer a custom-sized drumhead to better fit that now odd size shell, but then it won't fit the hoop properly. Unless you customize/reduce the counter-hoop size, there's not much you can do here to better the performance. I'd maybe say go with 2-ply heads or at least an underlay-ring which has more material at the collar, that might help the contact point between the shell and head for better performance.
good luck and happy drumming!
It still seems like non-standard bevels end up in the same place though. As drastic as it sounds to trim a shell down to 13&5/8", the contact point is still only an eighth from where it would normally be. You could almost shave that far in by hand with a sanding block. I'd imagine a double 45 on even a moderately thick shell brings you in farther than that.

I guess I'm just trying to convince myself that it's OK to keep messing with it. ;)
 

Toolate

Platinum Member
Cut it and add another stave and put it back in the jig again. Might just work? Probably after to add a few smaller staves opposite eachother than one if you follow (3 small staves at 120* to eachother).

Made a few stave drums and it's tricky! If you accept that it's probably trash already then what do you have to lose?
 

Jidis

Junior Member
Cut it and add another stave
Funny you should mention that, as it actually started life as a 20-segment shell. I was having some tooling issues and wasn't happy with the joints, but it was already the right size, so I changed the angles and added four staves.

The more I read up on double cut bearing edges, the more I think an eighth inch inward isn't that big of a deal, so I'll probably see what it does. The only other concern is the aforementioned lug depth, but that's easily correctable.

Thanks
 

Jidis

Junior Member
I'll probably be crucified for this, but my plan on that was actually to do a wrap with plain mill finish aluminum. This particular drum is kind of an experiment and I'm not really looking for something that sings. I read a bunch of threads on it and think I might be OK if I don't rigidly affix the wrap, and maybe use the hardware to hold it on for the most part.

Take Care
 
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