Serious timing issue

New Tricks

Platinum Member
I'm almost tempted to throw it in cubase though and stick a click in to see if thats the way it is haha.
I was curious so, that's what I did and, IMO, the drums came in to quick and never recovered, she (and I think the bass) adjusted to him/it.

There HAD to be some discussion about it. They obviously edited the program to show the judges reaction to it (that show isn't live is it?)

I still say the bass was spot on with her but I can't really hear when he adjusted.

In the amateur bands I play with, I see/hear people get and stay out of sync with tracks all the time, but we aren't anywhere near the level of national TV musicians.

Sometimes I will look at the bass player and he is just in a groove, eyes closed, bobbing his head, somehow not noticing he is a half click off :) That's why I break my backing tracks into segments. I give him about 5 seconds to get with the program, them shut it off and restart when possible.
 

pmancuso

Senior Member
I have a crapy set of speakers I'm listening with and can't here the bass. It sounds like the 'drummer messed up' and also corrected himself she didn't change.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
She absolutely adapted to the music by the 4th bar after it came in, not the other way around. Listen again, the drums come in and do not change.
 

T.Underhill

Pioneer Member
I was curious so, that's what I did and, IMO, the drums came in to quick and never recovered, she (and I think the bass) adjusted to him/it.

There HAD to be some discussion about it. They obviously edited the program to show the judges reaction to it (that show isn't live is it?)

I still say the bass was spot on with her but I can't really hear when he adjusted.

In the amateur bands I play with, I see/hear people get and stay out of sync with tracks all the time, but we aren't anywhere near the level of national TV musicians.

Sometimes I will look at the bass player and he is just in a groove, eyes closed, bobbing his head, somehow not noticing he is a half click off :) That's why I break my backing tracks into segments. I give him about 5 seconds to get with the program, them shut it off and restart when possible.
Listen to it again. The drummer came in early and recovered immediately on the second hit. Play along to it past the screwup and you'll see what I mean. If she stuck with it and sang "Silence like a cancer grows" without the pause, it would've come together fine.

But like I said, he threw her way off with that flub.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Listen to it again. The drummer came in early and recovered immediately on the second hit. Play along to it past the screwup and you'll see what I mean. If she stuck with it and sang "Silence like a cancer grows" without the pause, it would've come together fine.

But like I said, he threw her way off with that flub.
I disagree. If you concentrate on her guitar strumming only, she is dead on until AFTER the "Silence Like a Cancer Grows," then she corrects to the drummer. You can hear her do a quick double strum. She sings in time with her guitar, too.

I'd give her EXTRA points for that save.

EDIT - listened yet again, and the drummer never corrects. Bermuda is right on that. Also, the bass player does come in on 4 with a slide down, so he was following the singer, wherever the click may have been.
 
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bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Listen to it again. The drummer came in early and recovered immediately on the second hit. Play along to it past the screwup and you'll see what I mean. If she stuck with it and sang "Silence like a cancer grows" without the pause, it would've come together fine.
I listened again... the drums come in and do not correct at any time. If she'd stuck with what she was doing, they'd have been an 1/8 off through the entire song.

The question of exactly what happened still remains though. I'd like to think that if it was the band or other production issue, they'd have stopped taping and started over. I don't think the show is live live, that would be pretty risky on a few levels. But if the producers thought it was her fault - and it well may be if she had a click to follow - they'd let her hang herself, which is how it probably looked to the viewing audience.

She made it through last week and is on the show tonight, so obviously it didn't hurt her too badly.

Bermuda
 

pmancuso

Senior Member
O.K I'm home now and listened with good speakers. Yes the drummer came in an 1/8th note off and she and the bass player adjusted to him. Cudo's to her for not making a disaster out of it. He had to have been listening to an1/8th note click possibly with accented 1/4 notes and he got the down beat reversed but wasn't he listening to her! The bass player got it right. I think he was distracted, had an itch or was in the middle of farting. We will probably never know.
 

T.Underhill

Pioneer Member
I listened again... the drums come in and do not correct at any time. If she'd stuck with what she was doing, they'd have been an 1/8 off through the entire song.

The question of exactly what happened still remains though. I'd like to think that if it was the band or other production issue, they'd have stopped taping and started over. I don't think the show is live live, that would be pretty risky on a few levels. But if the producers thought it was her fault - and it well may be if she had a click to follow - they'd let her hang herself, which is how it probably looked to the viewing audience.

She made it through last week and is on the show tonight, so obviously it didn't hurt her too badly.

Bermuda
Heh, you're right :D I was kind of singing along to it and think I confused my version of a recovery with the 1/8th off. Tricky situation and she totally pulled it off.
 

frog

Member
yep.

she had a click to play along to, with backing track cued at the right time, but she dropped a beat somwhere earlier and put her exactly 1 beat ahead hahah!

ive done that live, its embarrassing, and trying to correct yourself is tough sometimes..
 

pmancuso

Senior Member
She absolutely adapted to the music by the 4th bar after it came in, not the other way around. Listen again, the drums come in and do not change.
Why does the bass player come in exactly the same time she does? If indeed she was off then the bass player decided to adjust to her and therfore it could have been a lot worse.
 

Diet Kirk

Silver Member
Why does the bass player come in exactly the same time she does? If indeed she was off then the bass player decided to adjust to her and therfore it could have been a lot worse.
Personally, although its hard to hear enough to be sure, I think the bass slide whilst sounding like its in time with her actually isn't. I think its a slide played to start on the 8th before she comes in so he hits his first on the beat note in time with her.

Although I have no idea if the band play live or if the mime. Knowing that I suppose would be the clincher!
 
The drums are early for sure. All of the other instruments, not just the bass, are in time with her (and each other, of course) before the drums come in. The bass has it figured out and on 3 locks in with the drums, the rest of the band follows and are together again before the next one. You can here her correction on the guitar at 0:52.

Drummer boo boo.
 
yep.

she had a click to play along to, with backing track cued at the right time, but she dropped a beat somwhere earlier and put her exactly 1 beat ahead hahah!

ive done that live, its embarrassing, and trying to correct yourself is tough sometimes..
I don't think she has a click. To me it feels like her tempo slows the further she along she gets. I could be wrong.

Every instrument is in time with whatever it is she is doing; strumming, singing. Drummer goofed. I feel bad for him!
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
Upon further analysis.....

1. She is not playing with a click at the beginning. There is no need to.

It's more comfortable to let her just do her human thing and wander a bit. All she has to be is close until the other instruments, both virtual and live come in.

If the rest of the music comes from real people, they would have simply played along with her tempo. However, at that 40s mark, the tempo promptly goes to 91 BPM and stays there till the end. This suggests me it was a backing track. The strings would also suggest backing track. I haven't seen the show but I doubt they employ a string section.

I think the bass is a real instrument because it comes in properly and adjusts to the glitch.

I think the backing track is virtual strings along with a "snare rim" audible click. Whoever triggered the track did so a half click early, or they wrote the part wrong and didn't test it.

When I record and use strings for backing, I always have to put an audible "click" like a tambourine, closed HH or rim with them because of their nature. They are long drawn out notes and the don't change abruptly. Everyone playing along need a click of some sort so it just makes sense to incorporate in into the track.

When I mis trigger a track that badly, my immediate reaction is to kill it and continue play without it. It It still may be ugly but, chit happens.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Horrible situation for the contestant.

I agree, Isosceles. A live studio band would have done a much better job. However, it seems the extra edge and flexibility that a live band brings is not considered worth the extra expense to the producers. The show's audiences vindicate the decision.

In my dream world audiences rise up in protest against automation and boycott artists who do away with real musicians to save money. It's nearly as good as the dream about pink elephants ...
 
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