Saw the movie “Count me in”

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

I really don´t understand your answer, Elvin, Blakey , Kruppa and Buddy didn´t went to Jazz University, so they don´t have any relation with the movie wich is about JAZZ at University (????)

my answer is sayign that the greats, probably for the most part, did not go through the process that the movie is trying to convince people of to become great, regardless of whether they went to university or not. Whiplash totally rienforces the notion that to get better, drummers just bash, "play until their hands bleed", only work on speed, and are outright jerks to each other. In any drumming community, that is just not the truth any more. But now, becasue of the movie, there are masses of people who think that that is what you need to do to become a great drummer. That sucks....

and I didn't view thaty movie as singularly about drumming at a university, but more about one guys expereince with trying to get better at drums. It happened at a university, but I think there are some bigger picture things going on there

 

[ravenson]

It was Jess Bowen picking out a kit. But yeah, everyone was doing some sort of Animal impersonation and displayed an almost Disney-vomit enthusiasm for all things drumming, and of course they had to poo-poo on the drum machine phase of the 80s. And let’s not talk about the serious pioneers that came before these people that we all really idolize. Drumming is just the best thing in the world.

I'd forgotten about this doc until this thread .

Pretty sterile . Made for friends and family of drummers by friends friends and family of drummers I suppose .

 

[Son of Vistalite Black]

"Whiplash" won five Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor (J.K. Simmons), and has a 94% audience rating on Rottentomatoes.com.

Why? Because most moviegoers aren't looking for realism in a fictional drama. If we were discussing "Rocky," some of you would be arguing over whether chasing chickens is an effective training technique for professional boxers.

Remember when "Forrest Gump" ran across America for 1,170 days? Wasn't realistic, but it was dramatic.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

"Whiplash" won five Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor (J.K. Simmons), and has a 94% audience rating on Rottentomatoes.com.

Why? Because most moviegoers aren't looking for realism in a fictional drama. If we were discussing "Rocky," some of you would be arguing over whether chasing chickens is an effective training technique for professional boxers.

Remember when "Forrest Gump" ran across America for 1,170 days? Wasn't realistic, but it was dramatic.

BUT, again, there are tons of people who expect that to happen when they bring their kids to an educational situation because - as with most of America - they have a hard time separating fact from fiction.

That is my issue with stuff like that. I not only get students with expectations developed by the movies, but I also lose students whose parents are "scared off" by the movie content.

"My kid is not allowed to drum because I saw the movie movie Whiplash, and I don't want that to happen to my kid" <---- very common statement I have received when polling new band students for what they want to play.

 

[Alex Sanguinetti]

"Whiplash" won five Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor (J.K. Simmons), and has a 94% audience rating on Rottentomatoes.com.

Why? Because most moviegoers aren't looking for realism in a fictional drama. If we were discussing "Rocky," some of you would be arguing over whether chasing chickens is an effective training technique for professional boxers.

Remember when "Forrest Gump" ran across America for 1,170 days? Wasn't realistic, but it was dramatic.

As if winning an Oscar or having the highest sales rating or something was a reflection of quality...

The issue with this movie is that the public does not believe that it is fiction (as in the case of Forrest Gump) but rather something that happens, and I tell you: IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

[J.D.]

"Whiplash" won five Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor (J.K. Simmons), and has a 94% audience rating on Rottentomatoes.com.

Why? Because most moviegoers aren't looking for realism in a fictional drama. If we were discussing "Rocky," some of you would be arguing over whether chasing chickens is an effective training technique for professional boxers.

Remember when "Forrest Gump" ran across America for 1,170 days? Wasn't realistic, but it was dramatic.

THIS. Of course the drummer/student relationship could never happen *today*. But Simmons was basically a combination of my early West Point drum teachers, and a later former Green Beret mentor.

And yeah, you could take ANY movie ever made and pick it apart/find 1000 things that are *technically* wrong/impossible.

 

[criz p. critter]

Geez… tough crowd.

 

[J.D.]

the standing ovation was probably from a room mostly full of non-drummers reacting to the over the top story line and acting, not because it portrayed any reality in the world of the evolution of jazz drumming.

granted, in the 50's-90's, there were probably TONS of teachers who approached musical evolution that way, but they were definitely going about it the wrong way. Do we all really think Elvin, Art Blakey, Krupa, and Buddy went through what the main character did in their evolution to greatness?

for me Whiplash is to drumming like The Mighty Ducks is to hockey...Hollywoodized story barely grounded in reality

when I get new students, often times, the parents will ask : "can you make then play like the guy in Drumline/Whiplash? And I reply with "absolutely not. That would be a waste of our time. I will make them play like real drummers, and it will be a more enriching experience"

I feel like as an educator, those types of movies set things 10 years back. They do more damage than good

And every Star Wars movie violates a few laws of thermodynamics.

And any parent who wants you to emulate Simmons should be reported to CPS.

 

[Alex Sanguinetti]

That is my issue with stuff like that. I not only get students with expectations developed by the movies, but I also lose students whose parents are "scared off" by the movie content.

"My kid is not allowed to drum because I saw the movie movie Whiplash, and I don't want that to happen to my kid" <---- very common statement I have received when polling new band students for what they want to play.

I can imagine that happening, those are like some the "splashes" of what I mentioned before: "... Because if it happens in Universities, how can it not happen in Primary Schools" (or the one you are in)

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

during the 50's-2000's, it was not uncommon to hear of band directors/music educators who did teach like that. The drum corps world in that era was known to be especially "militaristic" when it came to motivation. when I was in marching band, we got yelled at; were made to do push ups; I had an instructor who would throw rocks at us when we ticked; we were not allowed to have water if we messed up....the same director threw a music stand at the clarinets one time in concert band...he would put Tabasco sauce on the mouthpieces of brass players who would make mistakes....

it was definitely a different time, and o Whiplash definitely latched on to THAT type of instructor - because that sells tickets - as opposed to a Mr. Hollands Opus kind of teacher (even though that movie did well after it left the theaters)

Yes in high school band in early 70's the director would often throw his baton at somebody. He was known to throw a chair or two (at a wall not a person). If sound wasn't tight he'd have us run up the amphitheater steps just outside the band room with our instruments - which was no big deal for flute players but with a marching snare drum that was murder!

 

[J.D.]

Yes in high school band in early 70's the director would often throw his baton at somebody. He was known to throw a chair or two (at a wall not a person). If sound wasn't tight he'd have us run up the amphitheater steps just outside the band room with our instruments - which was no big deal for flute players but with a marching snare drum that was murder!

Guessing the timpani player quit or died that day.

 

[Cmdr. Ross]

well, this one is a documentary. There was no melodramatic story line. It just felt patronizing.

There's a whole thread on this movie when it first came out. I felt the same since they left out a bunch of influential players.

 

[2 hit wonder]

As if winning an Oscar or having the highest sales rating or something was a reflection of quality...

The issue with this movie is that the public does not believe that it is fiction (as in the case of Forrest Gump) but rather something that happens, and I tell you: IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Correct. He makes the same or similar correlations everytime. Such and such earned X amount of money when someone points out that it's crappy. So, yes I do gather that he equates it's value based on sales, earnings or awards.

Heart's later records out earned the early work, work that was good and not the syrupy commercial stuff.

 

[Alex Sanguinetti]

Yes in high school band in early 70's the director would often throw his baton at somebody. He was known to throw a chair or two (at a wall not a person). If sound wasn't tight he'd have us run up the amphitheater steps just outside the band room with our instruments - which was no big deal for flute players but with a marching snare drum that was murder!

That´s not JAZZ UNIVERSITY (wich is where it´s going on in the movie and mentioned by me, and they are portaying it as it´s top of USA), still shouldn´t happen at any level. It´s not just the agression of the teacher is everything ...

 

[Paul Blood]

Surely those people (members of the standing ovation) never studied Jazz Drums at a University/College, or any other subject at a University in the USA.

Where have you heard that a teacher can hit his students and insult them and authorities/parents/students won't expel him?

The topics that are discussed are not at the level of University Jazz students, much less of members of what is supposed to be the main big band of the school, they are things for beginners and people who are not musicians.

These are not the only absurdities of the film but probably the most significants I remember.

I would think that kind of behavior by university faculty would be uncommon in today’s world - everyone has a phone with a video camera now. I studied music at the University of North Texas from 1989-1993 and I did see faculty throw things and verbally attack students. I heard stories about a certain professor that pushed, slapped, and punched students. Some female complained to me about being sexually harassed by faculty too.

So I think there is a grain of truth in the movie Whiplash.

 

[2 hit wonder]

Once in high school I passed by a classroom full of my peers. A charismatic male coach/teacher was sitting in a chair beside his desk with an attractive female student with very large assets sitting on his knee facing the class. He was vigorously bouncing her up and down with his calf muscles singing the children's song, something little horsey going to town, careful horsey don't fall DOWN.
There were 3 more grinning attractive female students lined up awaiting their turn. Ah, the good old days, right? Computers had just been introduced to the school system.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

And every Star Wars movie violates a few laws of thermodynamics.

And any parent who wants you to emulate Simmons should be reported to CPS.

right...I don't have parents - anymore - who would approve of the Simmons method....but definitely have parents who wouldn't know that that portrayal is not real - anymore

Yes in high school band in early 70's the director would often throw his baton at somebody. He was known to throw a chair or two (at a wall not a person). If sound wasn't tight he'd have us run up the amphitheater steps just outside the band room with our instruments - which was no big deal for flute players but with a marching snare drum that was murder!

oh man...stair runs....we didn't have to do that, but for a minute, I had a guy at school who would do this to us after we ticked:

'Hey quads, what was up with the rolls in that last passage?"
"Oh man, yeah. We didn't finish the phrase on that one"
"Yeah....see that building way over there?"
"Yeah"
"Run and touch that building...."

we definitely finished the phrases after that.

I HATED Run And Touch That Building. The building was our grouds crew shed, and it wa about a half mile from the practice field....

I would think that kind of behavior by university faculty would be uncommon in today’s world - everyone has a phone with a video camera now. I studied music at the University of North Texas from 1989-1993 and I did see faculty throw things and verbally attack students. I heard stories about a certain professor that pushed, slapped, and punched students. Some female complained to me about being sexually harassed by faculty too.

So I think there is a grain of truth in the movie Whiplash.

yeah...North Texas is still pretty intense. I have had some North Texas kids tech my drumline over the years, and they say the mental game is way more brutal now. Not as much "yelling and throwing", but definitely more mental. Jealous that you got to go there in that time period. Lots of legends there back then!!!

Once in high school I passed by a classroom full of my peers. A charismatic male coach/teacher was sitting in a chair beside his desk with an attractive female student with very large assets sitting on his knee facing the class. He was vigorously bouncing her up and down with his calf muscles singing the children's song, something little horsey going to town, careful horsey don't fall DOWN.
There were 3 more grinning attractive female students lined up awaiting their turn. Ah, the good old days, right? Computers had just been introduced to the school system.

oh man....that is insane!! We had a teacher back in school who would seat all the girls - in their Catholic school jumpers - in the front row on purpose. Girls would ALWAYS complain about him being creepy and suggestive with them...

I was in Catholic school on the 80's...nuns with rulers was a thing. And we had a preist for religion class my freshman year who could leave a bruise with a classroom eraser. You DID NOT screw around in Father Connoly's class

 

[Neilage]

I also saw "Count Me In" when it was first released. Sure, it was surface-level and somewhat superficial, but it is a movie celebrating the passion of drums and drumming.
For that reason alone, I've watched it twice.
Considering all of the dreck across the streaming platforms, and how little programming exists about drums and drumming, I was thrilled to see anything to do with drums.

 

[yammyfan]

I saw and liked it. Lightly entertaining. Whiplash just made me mad, for some reason.

A former girlfriend of mine made a budget documentary called "Beat Keepers: Women With Rhythm" about drummers. She conducted some of her online interviews from my place so that was interesting to get a behind the scenes look at.

 

[Son of Vistalite Black]

As if winning an Oscar or having the highest sales rating or something was a reflection of quality...

The issue with this movie is that the public does not believe that it is fiction (as in the case of Forrest Gump) but rather something that happens, and I tell you: IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

This is crazy, but Son of Vistalite Black does believe that awards -- particularly the Oscars -- signify qualify. Here are some timeless, broadly enjoyed movies that have won Best Picture: "The Godfather," "Rocky," "Schindler's List" and "The Sound of freakin' Music."

The Rottentomatoes audience score is not a "sales rating." It's the averaged rating ticket buyers award to a movie they've watched. There's also a less important average for each movie based on critic's ratings.

Please suggest some evidence that "the public" believed or believes that the Farmer's Insurance Guy throwing cymbals at someone's head was historical rather than fictional. C'mon now.