Sad about cymbals

buzzbuzz

Member
I realize that there's not much I can do but I just needed to vent.

We open for this band every few weeks or so when they need an opening band. They're very good and they play almost every weekend. I always use the other guy's drums because we go on first. When we finish our set, I usually leave about 45 minutes later after the other band comes on stage. The only thing I have to bring are my sticks. His drums are real flat and the only adjustment I make is ask him if I can angle one tom a bit and he's very helpful - "Whatever makes you comfortable", he says.

Last wk we were opening for them and got a call that the drummer had a wreck or something and couldn't bring his drums and could they use mine. Since I've used his probably about 6-7 times I said no problem. Pain in the butt to stay until 2AM but I would sacrifice.

I play 3 up 2 down. He takes off one of the toms, and we spend like 5 minutes making the other 2 flat. No problem. However, he proceeds to 'tune' them (2 rack toms). After the show I check them out and they sound like timbales. Isn't that kind of an unwritten rule is you don't tune another guy's drums? So, I retune them - not that big of a deal and try and ignore the deep stick dents in the heads - probably about 4 dents.

The worst part is I set up my drums for practice and I notice at least 2 of my Paiste sigs are dented. I have never cracked or dented a cymbal - I just don't play that hard. You can see about 2-3 dents on the edges where a stick hit them very hard - kida like a mini sounde edge hi-hat bottom.

All of our guys have a good relationship with this band but this just sux. I couldn't really say "No" as the request happened on the day of a show. And now the next time I see the guy it's gonna be like, "Hey dude - you dented my cymbals".

At every other gig when someone HAS to use my drums I make them bring their cymbals and snare. SInce he didn't have his, wasn't sure that was an option and I really didn't want to cancel a show not even knowing this would happen in the first place.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
At every other gig when someone HAS to use my drums I make them bring their cymbals and snare.
that's customary, maybe even have them bring their own pedal as well, and I don't know any drummers who would argue with that.

Bermuda
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
So what's the end result? Are you gonna say "you owe me some cymbals" 'cause of the dents? That seems a little over the top. You open with saying you can't really do anything about it, and then say the next time you see him you're gonna mention he dented them. If it's only going to cause tension, and you don't really see him saying "oh sorry, let me buy you new ones" - why bother bring it up? Just take the lumps, and live and learn.

Obviously, if these are your only cymbals, this next bit doesn't apply, but could be something to strive for:

I have two sets of cymbals. Constantinoples (with a 24" that *I* cracked like a dumbass - but still sounds great) - and then my miss-mash (sp?) of other stuff that sound great but are beat up. If I know I'm sharing my kit, I'll bring the random stuff, unless I have the utmost confidence that the other guy is a serious player who understands/respects the equipment. If it's gonna be bashing...well, you get my 21" Sweet Ride with the chunk missing out of it.


It always sucks when you're gracious to let someone play your stuff (or returning the favor, in this case) and they don't respect the gear, and/or are completely oblivious to the situation. Tuning the drums without asking is a huge no-no, and if I saw it happening I'd immediately approach with a "what are you doing?"

But, unless his cymbals were destroyed in the car crash, part of the blame falls on you as well. As mentioned, it's customary to bring your own snare/cymbals (and in some places, pedals and even the frickin' throne) and if you've been seeing this guy play 6-7 times and didn't think to ask if he could bring his cymbals, that's on you [a bit]. Hell, it's easy to bring up, and if you do it right, they are often proud of the fact that you're conceding that they hit harder than you:

"Hey man, do you mind bringing your own cymbals? You hit a lot harder than I do, and I'm a little worried my Sigs wouldn't stand a chance against you"

something like that...


Anyway - always sucks when nice cymbals take a turn for the worst, but maybe the dents will add a layer of sound you really like? My Sweet Ride sounds awesome with that chunk out - tempers it a bit, and for what I use it for - again - sounds awesome.
 
I agree with The Colonel.

I learnt the same way you might have to buzzbuzz, good cymbals are for recording and your use, gig cymbals are used for everything and everyone else!

But for this reason, if i'm suppling the kit to play, i put on my super thick heads and gig cymbals and let everyone have a crack.

Plus this gives me a chance to clean bearing edges, batter hoops and cymbals stands before my good stuff goes back on!
 
There's a band I've gigged with quite a few times. We both use our own cymbals (He uses his XS20's or ZBT's, depends what he has) and I let him use my hats (because they're XS20's) and we both play the same way so it's cool. But my other cymbals are A's or A Custom's and I don't let anyone play those. I let other drummers use my pedal though (sometimes I regret it as there's always a wannabe Travis Barker who messes it up). But yeah, let people use they're own gear. I only let people use my hats if I know how they play.

Or, get a set of cymbals for live performances. I usually use my only pair for everything (which is a good idea). Hope I helped :)
 

buzzbuzz

Member
Good suggestions. Live and learn. I had some cymbals that I wasn't going to get much for anyway. Just took 'em off eBay and now they will be my gig cymbals.

Is there any way to 'bend' my cymbals back to how they were?

Will these bends affect the sound at all?

Will these bends weaken the cymbal?
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
Is there any way to 'bend' my cymbals back to how they were?

Will these bends affect the sound at all?

Will these bends weaken the cymbal?
I would say DO NOT try to bend the cymbal back. It will just weaken it more at that point.

I have an old 20 Zildjian ride that fell over on its stand backstage before a gig years ago. There's an obvious dent from the impact, and I just left it all these years. I'm sure it's sonically a bit different now, but it still sounds great.

That said, if you're worried and/or want a more official opinion, why not ask the peeps as Paiste?
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Good suggestions. Live and learn. I had some cymbals that I wasn't going to get much for anyway. Just took 'em off eBay and now they will be my gig cymbals.

Is there any way to 'bend' my cymbals back to how they were?

Will these bends affect the sound at all?

Will these bends weaken the cymbal?
You should check out the Cymbalholic cymbal forum.There are guys there who's knowledge of cymbals is freaky.There are also some legit cymbalsmiths there also,who could give you a better idea of what if anything,to do.Just join up,introduce yourself properly,and these guys will help you out.

Steve B
 

Strangelove

Gold Member
First of all, I think the guy probably knocked your cymbal stands over rather than dented them with a wooden drumstick. Mass times Velocity equals Energy, and we are talking about wood versus bronze. But at the right speed, it is possible. My guess is that it would take probably a wooden stick fired from a gun to dent bronze, though. More likely the cymbal edge hit a steel edge on a drum hoop or the leg of another cymbal stand. Either way, I wouldn't let anybody around any of my pro grade cymbals outside of my sight. The disturbing reality is that cracks come from such edge dents. I have returned online bought cymbals that had such dents from postal mishandling. Some may never develop, but some will. It's a crap shoot, really, that I don't like to play. That guy owes you some cymbals from his own clumsiness, I say.
 

buzzbuzz

Member
They weren't knocked over as I use a rack.
First of all, I think the guy probably knocked your cymbal stands over rather than dented them with a wooden drumstick. Mass times Velocity equals Energy, and we are talking about wood versus bronze. But at the right speed, it is possible. My guess is that it would take probably a wooden stick fired from a gun to dent bronze, though. More likely the cymbal edge hit a steel edge on a drum hoop or the leg of another cymbal stand. Either way, I wouldn't let anybody around any of my pro grade cymbals outside of my sight. The disturbing reality is that cracks come from such edge dents. I have returned online bought cymbals that had such dents from postal mishandling. Some may never develop, but some will. It's a crap shoot, really, that I don't like to play. That guy owes you some cymbals from his own clumsiness, I say.
 

Drumolator

Platinum Member
In my humble opinion, that guy owes you cymbals. He already knows he dented them, unless he does not pay attention. Maybe you can reason with him and get used cymbals that are in good shape. But he damaged your instruments, which makes him responsible. Good luck.
 

dwdrummerky

Senior Member
Thats a real bummer about the dented cymbals, and Paiste Sigs at that. In the situation where I use another persons kit or they use mine, I try and always use my own own cymbals, throne, pedals and snare.
One time I had a guy wanting to use my pies and snare at a show. They were playing right after us, and it was an all-fun TV theme show night for charity. He offered to help me set up my gear and commented on how light and thin my cymbals were..at the time they were k custom fast crashes, k hats, k session ride. What he said scared me so I backed out and good thing I did as he was a very hard hitter/2B type of guy and no would have wrecked my cymbals. After their set, I took a look at the kit that had been outfitted with brand new remo coated ambs and were all dented to hell.
 

Mark_S

Silver Member
Are they thin sigs? I'm trying to imagine how they got dented - he must of been using some really heavy dense sticks, maybe the butt end of 2B's? And maybe had them done up too tight or positioned too flat instead of angled? I've gone crazy on mine at rock/metal gigs with 5B's with no problem (to the point I've checked them afterwards out of worry). The fast crash stayed at home for that one...

But yes I'd agree with the others - I only have 1 set of cymbals and they are all sigs. I would not let anyone near them unless I knew them and their playing style OR if we agreed before hand that there is no damage and any dents would mean they buy me a new cymbal.

I would also mention something to him, just without being confrontational. If I'd dented someone's cymbal I'd want to know so I could get it fixed or replaced. He sounds like a reasonable guy. I wouldn't want to get hit by his drumsticks though ;-)

Good luck getting them sorted out.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
A genuine cymbal smith could help you out here.Not some"guy"in a basement with a hammer,but a real smith.The cost of repair, as to replacing them is reasonable,and I agree,that jerk owes you some money.But its money you're not likely to see.

There are more than a few drummers out there who go into the dreaded "rented mule/baby seal"syndrome,and because its not theirs,beat it as hard as they can.Good luck.

Steve B
 

Strangelove

Gold Member
I have been playing for 40 years and have never seen wood edge dent bronze. This certainly doesn't take that guy off the hook, but wooden sticks did not edge dent those cymbals. Aluminum maybe, but not wood. The kind of dents that start cracks are the sharp little nicks on the edges, usually from dropping in the ground or steel edges, or abrasions against concrete. If these are indeed stick dents, they should be alot broader, about the size of a drumstick tip or wider. If that's the case, maybe it's not a concern. Got any pictures?
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
I have been playing for 40 years and have never seen wood edge dent bronze. This certainly doesn't take that guy off the hook, but wooden sticks did not edge dent those cymbals. Aluminum maybe, but not wood. The kind of dents that start cracks are the sharp little nicks on the edges, usually from dropping in the ground or steel edges, or abrasions against concrete. If these are indeed stick dents, they should be alot broader, about the size of a drumstick tip or wider. If that's the case, maybe it's not a concern. Got any pictures?
You keep saying this... I have many thin cymbals (not expensive ones) that I have dented all over. They are broad dents - done by wood. You keep hitting something and they will give.

Actually - one nice cymbal (but I bought it used from someone who hated it) - I have a Crash of Doom that is dented all to hell. looks warped - and it's from my thin little Peter Erskine Ride sticks.
 

Drummingmonkey

Junior Member
I realize that there's not much I can do but I just needed to vent.

We open for this band every few weeks or so when they need an opening band. They're very good and they play almost every weekend. I always use the other guy's drums because we go on first. When we finish our set, I usually leave about 45 minutes later after the other band comes on stage. The only thing I have to bring are my sticks. His drums are real flat and the only adjustment I make is ask him if I can angle one tom a bit and he's very helpful - "Whatever makes you comfortable", he says.

Last wk we were opening for them and got a call that the drummer had a wreck or something and couldn't bring his drums and could they use mine. Since I've used his probably about 6-7 times I said no problem. Pain in the butt to stay until 2AM but I would sacrifice.

I play 3 up 2 down. He takes off one of the toms, and we spend like 5 minutes making the other 2 flat. No problem. However, he proceeds to 'tune' them (2 rack toms). After the show I check them out and they sound like timbales. Isn't that kind of an unwritten rule is you don't tune another guy's drums? So, I retune them - not that big of a deal and try and ignore the deep stick dents in the heads - probably about 4 dents.

The worst part is I set up my drums for practice and I notice at least 2 of my Paiste sigs are dented. I have never cracked or dented a cymbal - I just don't play that hard. You can see about 2-3 dents on the edges where a stick hit them very hard - kida like a mini sounde edge hi-hat bottom.

All of our guys have a good relationship with this band but this just sux. I couldn't really say "No" as the request happened on the day of a show. And now the next time I see the guy it's gonna be like, "Hey dude - you dented my cymbals".

At every other gig when someone HAS to use my drums I make them bring their cymbals and snare. SInce he didn't have his, wasn't sure that was an option and I really didn't want to cancel a show not even knowing this would happen in the first place.
You would be fully within your rights to ask him for money for the cymbals, and the drum head he dented. Perhaps say something like,

"Mate I've got to ask, I noticed some dents in my cymbals and I'd really appreciate you contributing towards some new ones; I really can't afford to replace them right now, and I've got gig X or recording session X coming up so its important all my gear is in good condition."

Don't feel like you owe him anything cos he let you use his kit, because, when it comes down to it, you never damaged his kit.

My rule is that no one uses my cymbals, snare or kick pedal: ever. If its uncomfortable to say no to someone I just say, "Sorry, they are my managers" or, "my dad's" or something.

Peace.
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
Seriously - do not ask for money - it will make everything awkward. And he will just simply say "I didn't do that - they were there before" or even "are you serious?"

What's he going to do? "Oh I'm sorry, I dented your cymbals? Well here: here's $800 I don't need. Go buy yourself something nice, on me!"

Good luck with that.
 

NPYYZ

Junior Member
I agree you will probably never get him to admit denting the cymbals, so I'd just kick his ass.
 
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