Sabian's New Logo

[MaskingApathy]

I honestly don't feel different about them. I loved those cymbals when I bought them, I love them now. I'm holding out hope they'll revert to the classic logo or replace the new one with something else that's not so absolutely obnoxious, so I've put a freeze on buying new Sabian product. What I'm doing instead is seeking out good quality used Sabians or new-old-stock (with classic logo) ones.

The last thing I want to do, despite me actually liking the new AAX Thin Crash models I've heard, is contribute ANYTHING to making them think that I'm ok with the new logo. They're a business, and the money from their customers (or brand-loyalists) talks.

Same here. Just bought an 8" AAX Air Splash and I made sure it was one with the old logo (it was used also). I haven't bought a brand new cymbal in a while because I like getting used ones on Reverb or eBay and cleaning them up so if I decide there's one I want to get that's where I'll be looking.

 

[Woolwich]

I’m not planning on buying any cymbals anytime soon and while I’m not fussed on Sabian’s new logo versus their old one, it hasn’t stirred anything like the the strong reaction in me that it has in others.
However, after a few posts this thread started discussing the marketing change that Sabian have done and for me this is far more relevant. Outside of drum and cymbal purchases I’ve noticed a trend within TV, radio and print advertising to push “agendas” that have nothing to do with the product being advertised. Hypothetically speaking if the Managing Director of a company holds a strong social or political view different to my own then I couldn’t care less. If however that Managing Director uses the company’s advertising to push his agenda and criticise mine, then I won’t be happy. There are other goods and services I can buy and it’s rare in any field that the product or service your using is without doubt unequivocally the best available. Which means using someone else’s products next time is no great inconvenience and you’re equally as likely to find the the product you’ve switched to is maybe even superior. Maybe it’s me getting more difficult as I get older but I’m slowly building up a small but growing list of products that I won’t use because the marketing has become agenda driven.
And this is perhaps the real problem behind the Sabian change. If we accept that marketing and advertising are powerful tools that can attract business, then perhaps we also need to recognise that they can repel business too. Unless there’s a very definite advantage in segmenting an audience then it seems a silly thing to do. It is possible to be all things to all men, but once you focus on catching one demographic you can’t be surprised if you lose others.

 

[AzHeat]

^^For me, that’s the root of the issue. I was seriously annoyed with their new logo at first. I just think it’s hidious and screaming loud looking. Nothing a wipe with acetone wouldn’t fix. Their ad campaign is what I’ve been saying is most damaging. There was a thread about Gillette and their campaign basically calling most men pigs. News flash. I’ve met nice guys and a-holes everywhere I’ve been. I know some will find this shocking, but the number women falling into either of the above categories have been pretty equal. What was the point of the ad aside from trying to pit one side against the other.

Same thing with others. There’s a massive agenda at play with so much advertising these days. It’s sickening and very damaging. Their whole point seems to be us against them. Sabian is no different. There’s absolutely nothing about their campaign that say hey, we just made a new AAX line that is just killer. We’ve taken the best of.....whatever. Nope. All about rebellion. It’s nothing more than I’m awesome, your a dick campaign! The logo....pffft! It’s a zit!

 

[Matt Suda]

There’s absolutely nothing about their campaign that say hey, we just made a new AAX line that is just killer. We’ve taken the best of.....whatever. Nope. All about rebellion. It’s nothing more than I’m awesome, your a dick campaign!

Have you ever checked out their social media? There's plenty of this kind of content. Dom Famularo is cheesing all over the place talking about their lines.

Once I started to look into their re-brand on their website, it started to click; I get what they're saying and I think there's a massive misinterpretation of what they're going for and the gist of their message is not unlike what we, on this forum, communicate to each other on a semi-regular basis.

Before anyone quotes that, to be clear, it's bad marketing because of the misinterpretation and I believe they've missed the mark. It's probably not intuitive in the way they expected it to be.

 

[AzHeat]

Have you ever checked out their social media? There's plenty of this kind of content. Dom Famularo is cheesing all over the place talking about their lines.

Once I started to look into their re-brand on their website, it started to click; I get what they're saying and I think there's a massive misinterpretation of what they're going for and the gist of their message is not unlike what we, on this forum, communicate to each other on a semi-regular basis.

Before anyone quotes that, to be clear, it's bad marketing because of the misinterpretation and I believe they've missed the mark. It's probably not intuitive in the way they expected it to be.

I stay off social networks, so I haven’t seen anything outside of their own pages. This is the only “social networking” site I’m on.

I’ve looked through their online catalog and nothing educational jumped out at me like last years catalog. I’ll have to look again, but I don’t seem to recall anything more “need we say more” or “nuff said” or “loud AF” and other jerky statements throughout. I’ll look again...

Update: Not sure if their site has changed or if I was on different pages, but aside from the logo, their product descriptions seem more normal. Their catalog is still chumpy...

 

[Yoshinya]

Have you ever checked out their social media? There's plenty of this kind of content. Dom Famularo is cheesing all over the place talking about their lines.

It's only recently that Dom Famularo came up to Sabian in Meductic to cheese about the new AAX models. Also, that's just Dom being Dom. Cheesing and radiating enthusiasm/positivity. Probably would've been more effective to have him doing this earlier, right alongside with the guy from Oceans Ate Alaska that was in all of the early videos, but they were going for that "young guy" marketing, so I get it?

It's only more recently that their messaging has shifted more from their ill-advised "rebranding" to what it should've always been: the new models they want people to buy. I get the feeling that on some level, they're listening and modifying based on the backlash.

 

[Trigger]

^^For me, that’s the root of the issue. I was seriously annoyed with their new logo at first. I just think it’s hidious and screaming loud looking. Nothing a wipe with acetone wouldn’t fix. Their ad campaign is what I’ve been saying is most damaging. There was a thread about Gillette and their campaign basically calling most men pigs. News flash. I’ve met nice guys and a-holes everywhere I’ve been. I know some will find this shocking, but the number women falling into either of the above categories have been pretty equal. What was the point of the ad aside from trying to pit one side against the other.

Same thing with others. There’s a massive agenda at play with so much advertising these days. It’s sickening and very damaging. Their whole point seems to be us against them. Sabian is no different. There’s absolutely nothing about their campaign that say hey, we just made a new AAX line that is just killer. We’ve taken the best of.....whatever. Nope. All about rebellion. It’s nothing more than I’m awesome, your a dick campaign! The logo....pffft! It’s a zit!

There's always been 'agendas at play' in advertising. Also, the rebellion angle is very 2004. Now it's environmentalism, being woke, etc. The agency that did this is terrible. Look up the dude that owns it on linkedin. He looks like a mid level boss from Final Fantasy.

 

[bermuda]

...but once you focus on catching one demographic you can’t be surprised if you lose others.

Yes...and no. If the product hasn't changed, does the marketing actually matter?

If I owned a Subaru, and really liked it, but am put off by their latest ads built around owner emotions (without one word about vehicle features or specs!) should I sell the car and buy something else, kind of an "I'll show them!" move? That would be silly.

Same for Sabian. I'm not a fan of the new logo, and the marketing goes right over (perhaps under?) my head. But I love the product. That's why I've been using their cymbals for more than 25 years. If the product doesn't change, I have no reason to look elsewhere (although I always check out what's new from the big and small companies and so far there's been no sonic or quality advantages to cause me to make a move.)

Bermuda

 

[BertTheDrummer]

Yes...and no. If the product hasn't changed, does the marketing actually matter?

If I owned a Subaru, and really liked it, but am put off by their latest ads built around owner emotions (without one word about vehicle features or specs!) should I sell the car and buy something else, kind of an "I'll show them!" move? That would be silly.

Same for Sabian. I'm not a fan of the new logo, and the marketing goes right over (perhaps under?) my head. But I love the product. That's why I've been using their cymbals for more than 25 years. If the product doesn't change, I have no reason to look elsewhere (although I always check out what's new from the big and small companies and so far there's been no sonic or quality advantages to cause me to make a move.)

Bermuda

Marketing matters, maybe not to some but it matters quite a bit to others. Brand image also matters to a lot of people as well. Car companies bank on that all the time. If marketing and brands didn't matter, then people wouldn't be so die hard about their trucks for example.

Like with car brands, I think I've said it before but the die hard Sabian owners probably won't care, though there might be some that will decide to go to another brand. I don't blame either side for whatever decision they want to make. However, what it might have an effect on is any new buyers or people not drinkin' the Kool-Aid already.

 

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I don't want to drive a modern BMW for the reasons that a significant minority of modern BMW drivers don't use their indicators and tail me when I'm doing exactly the national speed limit, officer (cough) in my Volkswagen, despite the fact that they seem like rather good cars.

Likewise, I would have been unlikely to drive a Volkswagen in the 1950s for reasons that are obvious.

These things matter to shallow and petty people like myself.

 

[Trigger]

Yes...and no. If the product hasn't changed, does the marketing actually matter?

If I owned a Subaru, and really liked it, but am put off by their latest ads built around owner emotions (without one word about vehicle features or specs!) should I sell the car and buy something else, kind of an "I'll show them!" move? That would be silly.

Same for Sabian. I'm not a fan of the new logo, and the marketing goes right over (perhaps under?) my head. But I love the product. That's why I've been using their cymbals for more than 25 years. If the product doesn't change, I have no reason to look elsewhere (although I always check out what's new from the big and small companies and so far there's been no sonic or quality advantages to cause me to make a move.)

Bermuda

Marketing matters quite a lot, otherwise marketing agencies wouldn't exist and marketing wouldn't be a 600 billion dollar industry. 🙃

 

[bermuda]

Marketing matters quite a lot, otherwise marketing agencies wouldn't exist and marketing wouldn't be a 600 billion dollar industry. ��

Of course it matters, primarily when attracting new business, and there's also retention advertising. But what about the people who know and love the product, like me. I don't need to be enticed or retained, so the marketing doesn't affect me one way or the other. Same for any of the companies whose gear I play, or cars I drive, or products I buy at the market. Nobody had to 'sell' me on anything I use in life, I'm experienced enough to gather and assess info, or in some cases exercise a little trial and error, before making decisions about what I spend money on. I was that way even as a kid.

I know that everyone isn't like me. I'm saying that the marketing doesn't affect me, or reflect on me in any way. Is anyone going to come up to me and ask why I use those wacky cymbals aimed at disenfranchised youth? Not in my professional lifetime they won't!

Bermuda

 

[TK-421]

Of course it matters, primarily when attracting new business, and there's also retention advertising. But what about the people who know and love the product, like me. I don't need to be enticed or retained, so the marketing doesn't affect me one way or the other. Same for any of the companies whose gear I play, or cars I drive, or products I buy at the market. Nobody had to 'sell' me on anything I use in life, I'm experienced enough to gather and assess info, or in some cases exercise a little trial and error, before making decisions about what I spend money on. I was that way even as a kid.

I know that everyone isn't like me. I'm saying that the marketing doesn't affect me, or reflect on me in any way. Is anyone going to come up to me and ask why I use those wacky cymbals aimed at disenfranchised youth? Not in my professional lifetime they won't!

Bermuda

If Sabian came out with a new print campaign that read "Weird Al don't get us, and his whack ass drummer Bermuda doesn't either. Peace out AF!" You'd drop Sabian like a bad habit, even though their cymbals didn't change. Why? Because their marketing insulted you.

Well here's some news, their new logo and marketing campaign insults my intelligence. Which is close enough to insulting me personally to make despise that campaign and anything that has to do with Sabian. Fortunately I don't play Sabians and have never wanted to, so it doesn't affect my gear choices at all. But if I ever decided to try out new cymbals outside of Zildjian, do you think for one second that I'd consider Sabian? The answer is a resounding NO!

What really irritates me is clearly how little regard they have for drummers. If this campaign were limited to a line of low budget cymbals for the youth market or a line of super piercing brash cymbals designed for ska and punk rockers, then fine. The marketing does indeed hit that target. But since it's across the board—meaning their Artisan series, Hand Hammered series, etc. get this marketing treatment—then who exactly are they marketing to? People who would like that campaign definitely do NOT play Artisans or HHs. And people who play Artisans and HHs apparently hate that campaign as much as I do. It's like they're saying F--- You to anyone who doesn't belong to this outdated, neanderthal notion of what a drummer is. In other words, their marketing screams loudly that they think drummers are just a bunch of punk kids who play by their own rules and give the finger to authority. If that's not a horribly outdated cliche, then I don't know what is. I'm certainly not like that, nor are any of the drummers I listen to and admire.

As a side note, I just got back from watching the LA Philharmonic perform Rite of Spring (highly recommended if any of you get the opportunity). I was sitting behind the orchestra, so I had an excellent view of the percussion section. They were using Sabian cymbals, of course with the old logo. But that got me thinking, are they going to put that hideous new logo on their band and orchestral cymbals??? I couldn't imagine that. Anyway, I checked that section of their website, and it seems that for now they're sticking with their old logo for those. At least they have enough sense not to alienate all of their customers

 

[bermuda]

If Sabian came out with a new print campaign that read "Weird Al don't get us, and his whack ass drummer Bermuda doesn't either. Peace out AF!" You'd drop Sabian like a bad habit, even though their cymbals didn't change. Why? Because their marketing insulted you.

If they did that directly, yes (as if they'd even give me an ad!) But their campaign isn't aimed at me, and I don't feel insulted, or defamed, or somehow left out as a result. It doesn't affect me at all.

Bermuda

 

[TK-421]

If they did that directly, yes (as if they'd even give me an ad!) But their campaign isn't aimed at me, and I don't feel insulted, or defamed, or somehow left out as a result. It doesn't affect me at all.

Bermuda

The point is, if you're insulted by a marketing campaign -- whether it's a direct insult, an insult to your intelligence, or an insult to ideals/philosophy -- it can be a big turn off and a valid reason for not wanting to associate with that brand. Regardless of the actual product that marketing campaign represents.

Plus you have to admit, any campaign that elicits such passionately negative responses from such an overwhelming number of consumers can't be good. It's not even polarizing, because that would imply that an equal number of people resonate with the campaign. But I have yet to hear of one single person say that they like it. Some (like you) claim that it doesn't bother or affect them, some say they don't mind it, but no one (as far as I can tell) has claimed to actually like it.

Yet there are many people, I'd gather an overwhelming number of people, who abhor it. That is not a good marketing strategy by any stretch. Even as you claim it's not aimed at us, why is that? We're the ones who spend our hard earned money buying things like cymbals and drums. It absolutely 100% should be aimed squarely at us. Ideally, all of us. Rock drummers. Jazz drummers. Funk drummers. Progressive drummers. Country drummers. Worship drummers. Those who only play in their basement. Those who tour the world. Not some narrow, outmoded cliche of a punk kid drummer.

The fact that they don't get that speaks volumes.

 

[bermuda]

The point is, if you're insulted by a marketing campaign -- whether it's a direct insult, an insult to your intelligence, or an insult to ideals/philosophy -- it can be a big turn off and a valid reason for not wanting to associate with that brand.

I suppose for some that's true. Not for me.

But I have yet to hear of one single person say that they like it. Some (like you) claim that it doesn't bother or affect them, some say they don't mind it, but no one (as far as I can tell) has claimed to actually like it.

Agreed, although my barometer for that centers around other pros close to my age, and the reactions I see in this forum. I don't think I'm getting any feedback from their target.

The only way the campaign could affect me is if it somehow puts Sabian out of business, and that won't happen.

Even as you claim it's not aimed at us, why is that? We're the ones who spend our hard earned money buying things like cymbals and drums. It absolutely 100% should be aimed squarely at us.

I'll guess that age 40+ drummers are not the only demographic spending money on gear.

I don't need to be constantly reminded of why I like Sabian with ads. I was sold on the cymbals a long time ago, and not from any ad campaign (although Sabian Switchers was still current in 1993 when I signed up.) Unless there's a change in the lines I use, they're welcome to run their company the way they want without any resistance from me. BTW, that's also the position of every other Sabian artist and drummer friends I spoke with at NAMM when this all came to light. Nobody dug it, but they love the product. That's why we will continue to play Sabian.

Bermuda

 

[TK-421]

BTW, that's also the position of every other Sabian artist and drummer friends I spoke with at NAMM when this all came to light. Nobody dug it, but they love the product. That's why we will continue to play Sabian.

Bermuda

You clearly love your Sabians, and obviously you have a more personal relationship with them as an endorser. So of course you're not going to jump ship the minute something as idiotic as this comes out. And I'm certainly not asking you or anyone else to switch.

But bad marketing is bad marketing, and those who don't have a personal, one-on-one relationship with Sabian (which includes 99.9% of us) will be much more likely than you to take offense. It seems that nobody likes this campaign, which is further proof that it was and still is a terrible idea. So I'm calling them out on it. As are a lot of other people. How it affects their bottom line is still to be seen, but I'd love to get a look at their sales numbers at the end of this year.

 

[bermuda]

You clearly love your Sabians, and obviously you have a more personal relationship with them as an endorser. So of course you're not going to jump ship the minute something as idiotic as this comes out.

Nor would I use something I didn't love just because of a brilliant marketing campaign. The marketing doesn't matter to me.

But bad marketing is bad marketing, and those who don't have a personal, one-on-one relationship with Sabian (which includes 99.9% of us) will be much more likely than you to take offense. It seems that nobody likes this campaign, which is further proof that it was and still is a terrible idea.

And so they would avoid buying a great cymbal just because of that? I don't see how that's a 'win'.

If a cymbal is a cymbal to those drummers and they really believe it's a lateral move between companies, perhaps they're better off chasing the slickest ad campaign.

Bermuda

 

[oldskoolsoul]

..But bad marketing is bad marketing, and those who don't have a personal, one-on-one relationship with Sabian (which includes 99.9% of us) will be much more likely than you to take offense. It seems that nobody likes this campaign..

But, regarding this forum, you realize that only 8-9 members are responsible for about 60% of the negative comments..?

But besides that, i think you overestimate the negative impact from this campaign way too much..

Personally i have no idea at all about the current campaigns from Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste, Istanbul or any other brand and i also have no idea about their campaigns in the past..Still i bought a lot of cymbals..

The one thing that Sabian actually has achieved, is that i heard more about them during the past weeks than i have in the 30 years before that..And i can not say at all that this campaign has influenced my view on them as cymbal makers..

..I'd love to get a look at their sales numbers at the end of this year..

I think you may actually be pretty surprised by that..

 

[TK-421]

But, regarding this forum, you realize that only 8-9 members are responsible for about 60% of the negative comments..?

But besides that, i think you overestimate the negative impact from this campaign way too much..

Personally i have no idea at all about the current campaigns from Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste, Istanbul or any other brand and i also have no idea about their campaigns in the past..Still i bought a lot of cymbals..

The one thing that Sabian actually has achieved, is that i heard more about them during the past weeks than i have in the 30 years before that..And i can not say at all that this campaign has influenced my view on them as cymbal makers..




I think you may actually be pretty surprised by that..

Fine. I'll stop posting on this thread, so it's one less member to say anything negative about their new marketing direction. I've said more than my share anyway.