Sabian's New Logo

BertTheDrummer

Gold Member
This thread is so revealing. It reveals just how totally brainwashed the majority are IMO. Honestly, I can't get on board. If I like a certain brand of rye bread, if they change their logo/packaging, I just think it's disingenuous and mind numbingly superficial to stop buying the rye bread I like, because I don't prefer the new branding change. The bread didn't change, just the bag it came in. Utterly re-diculous is my take on it. I just have to sit back and shake my head reading this thread, and hope that people un-brainwash themselves in their lifetimes and spend energy on things that actually matter.

Well the problem is that it isn't just the logo is it? First, they did change the product. Second, they changed their approach to the public. Third, it is up to the consumer to decide how they want to spend their money.

Also, your example of bread does not really equate. There is no connection of identity between a person and what bread they consume. There is a connection of identity between a person and the equipment they use when they play. As a player you are endorsing that company by your use of the product.

If a consumer wants to buy the product because they like the product, but then eliminate the logo from it to disassociate themselves from the company, they can. If they want to choose to not support the company because of any reason, they can as well.

Life is all choices, and in capitalist countries consumers have the freedom to choose what companies they want to buy from for whatever reason they want to, so even if it just a dumb logo and someone doesn't want to buy it they have that choice.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry" - Administrator
Staff member
Well the problem is that it isn't just the logo is it? First, they did change the product. Second, they changed their approach to the public. Third, it is up to the consumer to decide how they want to spend their money.

Also, your example of bread does not really equate. There is no connection of identity between a person and what bread they consume. There is a connection of identity between a person and the equipment they use when they play. As a player you are endorsing that company by your use of the product.

If a consumer wants to buy the product because they like the product, but then eliminate the logo from it to disassociate themselves from the company, they can. If they want to choose to not support the company because of any reason, they can as well.

Life is all choices, and in capitalist countries consumers have the freedom to choose what companies they want to buy from for whatever reason they want to, so even if it just a dumb logo and someone doesn't want to buy it they have that choice.

We all have our opinions. I expressed mine, but have no desire to defend it to anyone, that's pointless. I accept your opinion as yours. All I ask is the same in return.
 

equipmentdork

Junior Member
This is similar to what I wrote on another website, but I want to preface it with that, while I have serious issues with their "new direction", I have no malice toward Sabian, nor am I trying to drive people away from them. I need to be inescapably clear on this.

It's easy to bash Sabian for hiring these morons, but I'm not going to. Why?

I think it's as simple as Andy having an idea to do something different--which we can all likely agree on. In theory, there's nothing wrong with that.
But, Andy has a business to run and wouldn't have either the time or the resources to do things like research or take the pulse of their target audience. It makes sense to hire a company to do so. It doesn't take a genius to see that they have CLEARLY not done research on any level, or perhaps, a feeble attempt at such.

It also explains why they haven't quickly abandoned the logo/ads, which are probably going to cost them in sales what they paid the rebranders. The rebranders don't understand the product or the market, and worst of all, didn't care to learn. It's obvious to me that they are cocky know-it-alls anyway and are incapable of learning. Advertising isn't running down the street and screaming at people. Sure, you get their attention, but it's not the RIGHT kind of attention. Think of something like The Beatles' Butcher Cover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesterday_and_Today#The_"Butcher_cover"

So, while the mistake was not made by Sabian, it was done on their watch. It would seem unintelligent for them to wait for the ads/logo to fail at a retail level.
Isn't that the whole point of social media for companies? To get a fix on what the public feels in advance of such a disaster?

Time is going to tell what happens. I'd call them fools if they continue to discount feedback from the public, no matter what the rebranders have said. To stick this out because they have spent money also makes no sense. They hired people who are, to me, bad car salesmen, maybe even the insurance telemarketers or the cast of Glengarry Glen Ross.


Dan
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Isn't that the whole point of social media for companies? To get a fix on what the public feels in advance of such a disaster?

SM is certainly useful for getting a read after the fact, but a company tipping their hand in advance with a public survey wouldn't be a smart idea, either. That's what focus groups are for, or at least a discreet survey among younger cymbal buyers. I wonder if Sabian was able to somehow identify their share of the youth market, and was concerned about it eroding? It's not as if stores keep realistic track of the age of the buyers of specific products, so I'm, not sure where they would have got their stats.

As I've said, the new logo and ad campaign don't affect me, but I am curious about what brought it on. At NAMM, I was told that the original logo had been around for 30 years and "it was time for a change." I won't name the person who said that to me, but their initials are A.Z.

Bermuda
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
We all have our opinions. I expressed mine, but have no desire to defend it to anyone, that's pointless. I accept your opinion as yours. All I ask is the same in return.

Larry,

I along with many greatly respect your opinion on this forum, so not trying to go down the path of arguments.

Logos are essentially advertising banners, so with them they do carry an element of pride. I got over it. Not like I was going to buy any new ones anytime soon. The campaign style and the marketing company jargon is unacceptable. It reeks of civil unrest and opposition. It’s designed to be an us vs them campaign and those who don’t get it are idiots. Way too much of that going on and one of the reasons things around us are becoming more and more hostile. At least in my opinion.

Let me say this a different way. I work for a vendor. We are absolutely discouraged from ever speaking negatively about our competitors. More often than not, if I’m not 100% sensitive to my audience, I can very easily ruffle their feathers. It’s perceived as me calling them idiots for not considering them, even if that was 180 degrees away from what the intended message was.

In contrast, two of our biggest competitors mercilessly attack us. At events they get the crowd all excited and laugh it up all they can. It worked for a while, but one just folded and the other fell on hard times and is now struggling.

We were at a show last week and to our surprise, we were set up directly adjacent to them. I was all ready to go up, say hello, and be respectful. When the competitor team arrived, they threw an absolute fit. They slammed things around and demanded to speak with the organizers. They ended up moving to the opposite end of the even.

Frankly, the Sabian marketing and their marketing company is using the same tactics. I feel it’ll blow up in their face. Honestly though, to say someone is brainwashed, because you disagree with their view isn’t far off of the campaign and marketing strategy. This is my biggest issue with the whole thing.
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
Sorry....just popped into my head.....

"ZILDJIAN...cymbals for adults...."
 

equipmentdork

Junior Member
I think a company's logo connects its customers to a sense of pride in ownership, whether it's Rolls Royce or Ludwig or whomever. Sabian has managed to sever that entirely on what I consider to be bad advice. And it can't be said that it's unimportant. If it was, why waste a second or money changing it?

Whatever the fallout is going to be, I am taking a "wait and see" approach. I will be emailing them soon, strictly as a respectful longtime customer looking for some answers.

Man, I enjoyed Sabian when they didn't have to try so hard and just made my favorite cymbals. The product did the talking, and what the products didn't say, the company said through their support.


Dan
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Man, I enjoyed Sabian when they didn't have to try so hard and just made my favorite cymbals. The product did the talking, and what the products didn't say, the company said through their support.


Dan

To me, support was their biggest differentiator and they walked away from that model, when then began this campaign. It was what made us average drummers feel like we mattered to the company.

Now, just like their competitors, they will not customize an existing cymbal. You have to order it custom. If you’re trying to get one of your existing cymbals to sit in better with the others, or thin out a ride a bit for more wash, you have to order it that way.

Dave Weckl, Neil Peart, and others sat down with cymbal smiths and said yes or no to changes and got what they wanted. Now, if you have something you like, but would like it just a bit different, and order it, how do you know you like it. Not exactly like ordering drums with deeper/shallower shells or a different wrap. You’re quite likely to hate what’s delivered.

They are now a regular company, so really lost the customer service edge. That smells like trouble for the company from my perspective. Knee jerk changes usually are.
 

Matt Suda

Member
For all the cymbal recommendations in this forum that basically boil down to, "buy what is in your budget and that sounds good to you," there sure is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over marketing strategy.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
For all the cymbal recommendations in this forum that basically boil down to, "buy what is in your budget and that sounds good to you," there sure is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over marketing strategy.
Frankly, they brought it on themselves. There was no need to say we don’t care what you think, we’ll make what we want, drummers should be free to choose, blah, blah, blah.

It’s more like the rebellious teenager saying I don’t care if you don’t like him/her. I’m going out with them anyway...why? We’re they not making what they wanted? Was someone stopping us from buying them? We’re we sheep for selecting other brands?

It’s no wonder there’s so much pushback from the public. Their marketing is saying or screaming rather, the wrong things. People don’t appreciate being lectured or yelled at and that’s exactly the point of the campaign.
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
For all the cymbal recommendations in this forum that basically boil down to, "buy what is in your budget and that sounds good to you," there sure is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over marketing strategy.

I think the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" as you put it, is more indicative of a FAILED marketing campaign than anything else....lol.

The comments have to be running 10-1 against the change at least. Not just here but all over the net. Even most of the people who love Sabians and will continue to buy and use them don't really care for the logo and especially the attitude behind it.

Can't help but think if people feel this strongly about it there is a discnnect between Sabian and at least a good number of their potential buyers. Kind of a "what were they thinking?" type of thing.

A shame more than anything else I think...
 

Lennytoons

Senior Member
Zildjian's new rebrand? "Zildjian- BOUND by Quality and Tradition"

"Zildjian-"There's a reason we've been around since the earth cooled"

"Zildjian-YOU are our family" ouch

"Zildjian-"We're not Sabian"
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
"Paiste...when being the best is good enough."

"Paiste...we speak in brass-not ink."

"If you really want to see a new logo on your kit....come over to Paiste."

"Paiste-when you need more than a new logo and naughty words from your cymbalsmith..."

"Paiste-cutting edge cymbals crafted on our tradition of excellence."

"Paiste-Working too hard to bring you the finest cymbals on Earth to waste time playing marketing games..."

Kinda fun....lol.
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
EhhSoCheap said:
..For all the cymbal recommendations in this forum that basically boil down to, "buy what is in your budget and that sounds good to you," there sure is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over marketing strategy..


Exactly..lol..

People are bugging eachother here 1000 times a day telling eachother and the rest of the world how hugely important sound is and that everything is only about the sound and that you should buy what sounds nice to you and that you need to go listen cymbals in person because thats the only way to hear them and to decide if they sound nice to your ears because with those cymbals you will sound the best etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc..

Untill a company changes a logo that is..lol..
 

BertTheDrummer

Gold Member
Exactly..lol..

People are bugging eachother here 1000 times a day telling eachother and the rest of the world how hugely important sound is and that everything is only about the sound and that you should buy what sounds nice to you and that you need to go listen cymbals in person because thats the only way to hear them and to decide if they sound nice to your ears because with those cymbals you will sound the best etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc..

Untill a company changes a logo that is..lol..

I usually don't tell people to get what sounds best, I usually say get what speaks to you. Specifically because I learned years ago that there's a lot more than just feel and sound that has a hand in what speaks to someone. Looks is a major thing and sometimes brand is another one.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
I usually don't tell people to get what sounds best, I usually say get what speaks to you. Specifically because I learned years ago that there's a lot more than just feel and sound that has a hand in what speaks to someone. Looks is a major thing and sometimes brand is another one.

I can’t stand on my soapbox and tell anyone to listen in person and compare. I did most of mine on YouTube. Had it narrowed down to several brands, but went with Sabian, because I felt like they provided the best service/value among all others in my selection. I wouldn’t have bought anything else in their line, besides the Evos though. Far too much variation in the other lines for my purchasing model to work. It was either Paiste or Evolutions, unless I could hear them for myself.

Sabian’s user choice awards campaign was also about the product and not about picking them to stand out in rebellion, which has nothing to do with the instrument. May have worked when I was 15 though!
 
Zildjian's new rebrand? "Zildjian- BOUND by Quality and Tradition"

"Zildjian-"There's a reason we've been around since the earth cooled"

"Zildjian-YOU are our family" ouch

"Zildjian-"We're not Sabian"

The Zildjian guys must be laughing at Sabian since they saw the new logo unveiled in January.
 

BertTheDrummer

Gold Member
To continue the fake new slogans:

Soultone: Not only will we listen to you, but we'll give you an endorsement.*

*Endorsement requires the purchase of X number of cymbals at X% off MSRP directly from us and you can only use our product for X years even though that will cost you more than actually buying the cymbals on your own from some other place at street price but you will be able to look cool and say you have an endorsement and hey we at least aren't being like Sabian and alienating you so that makes us a lot cooler and yes I know this is very much a run on sentence but hey it is fine print and that's what we do in fine print to make sure you don't actually read this stuff again go Soultone and we aren't Sabian we make real Turkish cymbals okay so we don't actually make them instead we get them from someone else but shhh you don't need to think about that right now you get an endorsement.
 
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