Sabian-Zildjian Comparison correct?

Nitemare

Senior Member
Hey!
Ok so after alot of playing and such, ive come up with this because Sabian (my preferance) and Zildjian are similar and i see alot of questions about comparisons.

Planet Z - Sbr
ZBT - B8
ZXT - B8Pro
ZHT - Xs20
Z3 - APX
A - AA
A Custom - AAX
K - HH
K Custom - HHX
K Constantinople - Vault Artisan
Mastersound - X-celerator
EFX - O-Zone

Do you guys think this is accurate?

Cheers, Shaun
 

Biscuit

Senior Member
Personally, i don't think the ZHT and XS20 is really a fair comparison due to the fact that XS20 is pretty much a B20 line with a reasonable price tag.

Z3 - APX...Same as ZHT and XS20. Z3 being a B20 cymbal and APX being a B8 cymbal. That being said though, both are great lines for what these cymbals are made for.

The K Constantinople - Vault Artisan is another i don't go along with because the Sabian Vault is cymbals that were made for, or requested by artists. The Vault line really has no certain personality. Those cymbals really go from one extream to another. The Constantinople line, on the other hand, is much like K Customs or HHX...they are just another brand of cymbals to choose from by Zildjian.

These are my opinions though. Based on their price range only i would say your list is accurate.

I hope this made sense. Sometimes i have a hard time trying to explain what i'm trying to say. lol
 

daredrummer

Gold Member
Like biscuit said a few things are off, but that's as close as you can get it. Zildjian doesn't really have an equivelant to Sabians vault line (not artisan), which I think is the best line Sabian makes. But then Sabian doesn't have an equivelant to the oriental series that zildjian makes, which has some cool effect cymbals.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I would say that A Customs have more in common with the Vault V series than AAX, although AAX uses a similar fine point lathing, but the hammering is very different and owning both, I'd say that they don't sound much alike either.

HHX and K Custom aren't all that similar either (except for the marketing) because of HHXs use of jumbo hammering that tends to make them much darker and trashier for given weights. HHX offers a more broad range of options within HHX too, which K Customs have nothing comparable to (HHXplosions, for example).

K Cons and Vault Artisans - again, much here about marketing because the K Cons are still machine hammered and the VAs are very heavily hammered, but they do cater to the same market.

I'll echo the same bit regarding ZHT (b12) and XS20s (b20), and the Z3 (b20) and APX (b8). Different alloys can't really be compared apples to apples.

Everything else seems to relatively close, but Sabian and Zildjian really do things differently even if you're comparing A to AA (the easiest case to look at). Play one against another and there's a noticable difference that can be traced to how differently the fundamental manufacturing processes are.
 

Nitemare

Senior Member
Sabian Vault is cymbals that were made for, or requested by artists. The Vault line really has no certain personality. Those cymbals really go from one extream to another.
You explained your opinion correctly, but Sabian Vault has the V series and the Artisan series, which are not made for certain artists.
 

Nitemare

Senior Member
I would say that A Customs have more in common with the Vault V series than AAX, although AAX uses a similar fine point lathing, but the hammering is very different and owning both, I'd say that they don't sound much alike either.

HHX and K Custom aren't all that similar either (except for the marketing) because of HHXs use of jumbo hammering that tends to make them much darker and trashier for given weights. HHX offers a more broad range of options within HHX too, which K Customs have nothing comparable to (HHXplosions, for example).

K Cons and Vault Artisans - again, much here about marketing because the K Cons are still machine hammered and the VAs are very heavily hammered, but they do cater to the same market.

I'll echo the same bit regarding ZHT (b12) and XS20s (b20), and the Z3 (b20) and APX (b8). Different alloys can't really be compared apples to apples.

Everything else seems to relatively close, but Sabian and Zildjian really do things differently even if you're comparing A to AA (the easiest case to look at). Play one against another and there's a noticable difference that can be traced to how differently the fundamental manufacturing processes are.
Sabian's APX and Zildjian's Z3 are both designed for loud aggresive sound. But i'd say youre right about everything else.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Sabian's APX and Zildjian's Z3 are both designed for loud aggresive sound. But i'd say youre right about everything else.
Right, they're targeted at the same audience, more or less, but the APX is also targeting the B8 Paiste crowd too, namely the 2oo2s & Rudes. They even have that iridescent Giant Beat coloration.

Z3s have more in common with the Metal-X AA Sabians, IMO.
 

daredrummer

Gold Member
I like Sabian's machine hammered cymbals better than zildjian's machine hammered, but then I like zildjian hand hammered cymbals better than Sabians.

Just an observation.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I like Sabian's machine hammered cymbals better than zildjian's machine hammered, but then I like zildjian hand hammered cymbals better than Sabians.
I assume you're talking about Ks, but Zildjian doesn't hand hammer anything. From the FAQ section on their website:

Are Zildjian cymbals "Hand-Hammered"?

With the development of new technology, the hand hammering is not the most effective or efficient way to manufacture the highest quality, consistent cymbal. We now have the ability to accurately recreate hand hammering with computer-controlled machinery. A computer can be programmed to hammer a cymbal in a symmetrical pattern, as in the A and A Custom ranges, or randomly, as in the K and K Constantinople ranges. Symmetrically hammered cymbals have a high, bright cutting sound because the hammer rows are more organized and vibrations can easily travel across the body of the cymbal. Randomly hammered cymbals have a range of overtones and a darker sound because the sound vibrations have to travel through the many unorganized hammer marks. This new technology has allowed a consistency in cymbal sound that cannot be duplicated by human hands.


For that matter, Sabian doesn't hand hammer much of significance either. The HHs get some token treatment, but nothing deep that determines shape, and the HHXs are jumbo hammered using machines. The Artisans are the only cymbals from Sabian that get any significant amount of hammering.

If you want real hand hammering, you have to look to the various Turkish makers (or the boutique makers like Bettis, for example).
 

daredrummer

Gold Member
I assume you're talking about Ks, but Zildjian doesn't hand hammer anything. From the FAQ section on their website:

Are Zildjian cymbals "Hand-Hammered"?

With the development of new technology, the hand hammering is not the most effective or efficient way to manufacture the highest quality, consistent cymbal. We now have the ability to accurately recreate hand hammering with computer-controlled machinery. A computer can be programmed to hammer a cymbal in a symmetrical pattern, as in the A and A Custom ranges, or randomly, as in the K and K Constantinople ranges. Symmetrically hammered cymbals have a high, bright cutting sound because the hammer rows are more organized and vibrations can easily travel across the body of the cymbal. Randomly hammered cymbals have a range of overtones and a darker sound because the sound vibrations have to travel through the many unorganized hammer marks. This new technology has allowed a consistency in cymbal sound that cannot be duplicated by human hands.


For that matter, Sabian doesn't hand hammer much of significance either. The HHs get some token treatment, but nothing deep that determines shape, and the HHXs are jumbo hammered using machines. The Artisans are the only cymbals from Sabian that get any significant amount of hammering.

If you want real hand hammering, you have to look to the various Turkish makers (or the boutique makers like Bettis, for example).
Yes I was talking about K's. It's kind of depressing to now see everything being made with machines, but I guess technology is just in our human nature. I hate how they advertise them as hand hammered though.
 
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