Rumble with a front rack and 5 cymbals on it?

Quai34

Junior Member
Hi,
I have a front rack with 3 toms, and then, 5 cymbals on it. 16", 18", 17", 19" and 20", to do that, I need to put them in a staggered arrangement and when I play any of the cymbals, I have a deep rumble/humm and I'm not sure I had that before.... I just added another cymbal, the artisan crash 16"....Also, as I wanted my cymbals to be quite close to me while at the same time being able to squeeze between the Tom and the cymbals a microphone on each Tom, I installed the microphone permanently and lowered the cymbals as much as I could. I don't think it will be heard when we practice but if we record, whether during practice, live or for a studio recording at home, I'm worried I could still have this oise.
So:
1) Could this comes from the rack that vibrates and goes into kind of a "self oscillation"?
2) Should I remove one by one each cymbal to see if it's stop and check which one is the culprit here?
3) Is there a norm on how many cymbals Max you should have per square feet or on a rack and how close they should be like "not less than 10cm" between them?
4) Could it be the cymbals themselves that, because they have not enough air to breathe and resonate, they are entering in resonance with the others with their low frequencies and creating an extra lower frequency?
Let me know if you have experienced that in the past?
Sincerely
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
What kind of rack? I'm curious because tube vs hex vs square might make a difference. The clamps might as well. I had a 3 sided Pearl DR110 for about 15 years. It held 7 cymbals and 4 toms. No weird noises. It was 3 sided, but once locked together it was basically 1 piece. No isolation anything at the joints or clamps either.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Hi,
Thanks for your reply, it's a one side only and tube rack. I think it's and old Pearl, I say I think because the guy who sold it to me has several drums kit but he sold me a Tama Star 1973 Mapple.... And I'm not the drummer, just the keys player but I buy the drums stuff so, when we practice, everything is at my place ready...He has the same one at his place and he has vintage Pearl on it...
 

johnwesley

Silver Member
Here's a thought. The tubing whether round or square or triangular is hollow. Could be whatever is clamped to it is causing resonance inside the rack. Same as if you you hit a pipe and it resonates. might try studding wads of cotton balls or cut up t-shirt material into the tubing. Well, it makes sense to me.
 

Peedy

Senior Member
Should we assume you have some kind of carpeting under your kit? I’m thinking along the lines of some type of vibration resonance that wouldn’t typically be noticed is now rearing it’s ugly head with whatever changes you’re making to your setup. Mics? More cymbals? Added metal on metal hardware? Props to JohnWesley.

Pete
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
I had this problem when miking the hihat on my Pearl rack in the upstairs bedroom. I was using the standard Pearl tom jig, with a Shure SM57 mounted to ProLine kick mic stand (with the bottom weight removed, the 3/4" pipe fits easily into the Pearl jig). But I don't remember if I got the hum while striking the hihat or while striking whatever else was connected to the rack (two toms, 3-4 cymbals, 3 sided square Pearl rack).
Since moving the mikes to the Tama set downstairs (no rack), and using a standalone (Roland SPD-X) tripod base for the hihat mike, I've not had any issues. Everything else is the same: Shure SM57s clipped to each drum rim using Shure mounts.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I think the hum came when I was striking the hihat, but I can't for the life of me or in me think how that could happen, unless one of the legs of the hihat stand was touching the rack leg.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
I tried today in removing some cymbals and they do it on the heavier cymbals, but they do it whatever these 3 cymbals are...
Whe they are on a stand alone, finally they do it, it seems that it's their natural lower overtone.... I have usually noticed the highest overtone but not this one??? Weird....
I will put back the two 16" that I had on it (with nothing else) and see if I still hear it.... On the other hand, they are heavy and medium heavy for 16", 1272 and 1290... Also, all cymbals were higher before, do you think that, because they are on shorter poles, they could transfer the sound more? If yes, that sucks because I have just spent hours to adjust tehm perfect'ly and closer to me.... Do you believe that, I'm not the drummer in the band and I spent time to admit the drums kit... Well, it's my drumkit though....
I will try what you suggested about filling what is holllow and see how it works...Thanks guys, lot of help here.
Sincerely
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Ok, well, why not, is a cymbals pads will do the same? I saw them today at my store, a pack of 5, orange one. is the Color determine the resistance, flexibility? You have to put them instead of the felt but you chNge only the one under the cymbal right?
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
Ok, well, why not, is a cymbals pads will do the same? I saw them today at my store, a pack of 5, orange one. is the Color determine the resistance, flexibility? You have to put them instead of the felt but you chNge only the one under the cymbal right?
The Geeetar Center pictures show washers and felt removed from a standard cymbal stand stem, and the Aquarian device slips over the stem and you tighten it to the stem with a drum key. But I've never used them so I wouldn't know (standard disclaimer which is pretty useless, sorry). How hard are you hitting your cymbals anyway??
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
larger cymbals produce more vibrational low end than you'd think, & having everything connected together just brings that to the fore through sympathetic vibration. This is exaggerated if the rack is low mass / less stable. If you have mic's connected to the rack, that's a perfect storm, as they'll pick up everything.

You can either work on element isolation, rack stability, mic separation, or preferably all 3. Either that, or live with it, and embrace the sonic negatives of applying a high pass filter to your mic channels on recording or live reinforcement.
 

J-W

Well-known member
I'm set up on a rack too, and have experienced this exact same problem. I'm not 100% sure what caused mine, but it seemed the culprit was the 15" thin crash I had on a short boom that was extended most of the way out. It caused a vibration that would actually loosen the shaft that threads into the tilter on the stand. Once it loosened there was a very audible low rumble. I ended up moving the stand because I reconfigured some things on my kit and I put some teflon tape on the threads of the tilter so it wouldn't come loose, so I don't know which one of these things cured the problem.
There is a reason you don't see racks in the studio. Literally everything on a drum set resonates and having much of it on a hollow tube is a recipe for unwanted vibrations being picked up by the microphones, even more-so if those microphones are also attached to the rack.
I remember reading about some people using expanding spray-foam in their gibraltar racks, back in the day, to help tame some of these vibrations, but I've never tried it. My rack is custom made and doesn't have open ends on the tubes.
I would suggest hitting each cymbal with your hand to see if you can get that rumble going and find out which one is the culprit. It could even be a tom as well.
Good luck with tracking it down.
 

gish

Senior Member
How about a few cheap cans of spray foam to stop any sound or vibrations coming through the pipes? I’d make sure it was a closed cell formula to repel moisture.
 

J-W

Well-known member
Yep, like I said above, I've heard of that being a solution to the tubes resonating.

But before you do that, I would see if you can find the source. There may be a simpler solution.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Yep, like I said above, I've heard of that being a solution to the tubes resonating.

But before you do that, I would see if you can find the source. There may be a simpler solution.
My Pearl rack had pieces of plastic that snapped into the ends of the 3 different bar sections, and also at the feet. It was also on thick berber carpet. I took it to the studio a total of 4 or 5 times without issue. There were never any mics attached directly to the rack however. Perhaps the vibrating rack is causing a sort of vibrational feedback with attached mics.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Hi Guys,
Thanks a lot, I will try the cympads first and then the CRS.... For the cympads, 40-15mm UNDER and 40/10 or 12" on top right?, 8" seems too short right, not deep enough?
 
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iCe

Senior Member
When you use a rack, you get sympathetic resonance or vibrations. I use a pretty crowded 4 sided racks and when i hit my right china, it still wobbles (not much, but you can see it) the equipment on the other side of the rack. When i directly mount my tambourine to my rack with a clamp it also makes a low sound when i hit something a bit too hard. This is a reason that a lot of drummers (Simon Phillips for example) don't use a rack anymore but separate stands. Most of the time it's audio engineers though that complain about it, myself... i don't hear it when i pounding away on my 2 bass drums and enjoy a comfortable stoll through china country :sneaky:

Quality of the rack is something to take in consideration as well. Even cheap stands will wobble a lot and generate noise from anything else that is mounted on it. Years back i played a kit provided by the venue which had crappy stands. Mounted my china on one of them and added my cowbell with a clamp to that stand. When i played the cowbell, the vibrations caused the china to 'speak out' as well. Not loud, but you could hear the same sound when you would softly tap it.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Hi Guys,
I follow your advices and bought 5 CRS devices and they are awesome, no more rumble/noise of any type, just the plain full sound of the Cymbals....Thanks a lot for your advices, problèmwe solved!
 
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