Rimshots: traditional grip vs. matched grip

gravyface

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I have a hunch that there is just something different to the sound of a traditional grip rimshot vs. a matched rimshot, and why some of the old rock/session drummers of the 60s/70s sounded different than their counterparts. Roger Hawkins, Mitch Mitchell...

Anyone ambidextrous enough to post up some samples of both?
 
don't forget the Purdie grip that's the third one. Matched butt end out.
but..if the rimshot is "of the same' coming from your arm weight.. there shouldn't be a sound difference what may be different though is...what came (or what comes) next note wise..the exact rimshot should or could, be same, if dropped equally, it what's the next move, that shows the difference in with grips.. there's a different thought process which generally is what is cited when drummers discuss "grips"..there's also different and different "amount" of muscles involved in either which affects overall weight dealt with

but if you hit a rimshot with the same "theoretical" 4.3 oz. of weight, in same spot has to sound same; how the stick was held irrelevant
it's what comes after or maybe what came before,.
 
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I'd say the position (angle) of the snare has a lot to do with the sound of the rim shot. I'm matched grip and my snare is flat. Traditional would need a tilt forward to a specific degree depending on how much you want to use the rim. I use it quite a bit. But JDA is correct you can get the sound you want either way...as well as the exact same sound IMO.
 

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I suspect the biggest difference you are hearing is the studio/recording technology norms of the day.

I can play both, but unfortunately I cannot record full-volume playing in my apartment. If I get the chance to demo both grips, I will.
 
With traditional grip I can get maybe 1-2 different sounds from my left hand hitting a rimshot. Matched grip, or right hand, I'm getting maybe 3-4 sounds ("high" pitched to lower pitched). But when I use traditional it's mostly for jazz and don't use it where I need different timbres of rimshot, like in Latin playing.
 
Interesting discourse here fellas. Appreciate it. Yeah, there are just some tones that I can't get at all. Roger Hawkins. I mean, listen to Land of a 1000 Dances, but now fast forward to Traffic - On the Road (Live). Obviously different tuning, dampening, but there are some choice tones happening there in snare land. Maybe it's the tape, maybe it's the channel distortion on the desk, but there is some "chalky" tones there, nothing like I hear today, where guys are cheating with Big Fat Snare rings and all that and it's a world of difference. Another one is is Red Clay by Jack Wilkins. Starts off kind of choked, then he dials it in, and it's fat for days. Funky hard panned plate reverb there too. I don't know, I just hear a lot of snare tones that are gonzo today. Nothing even remotely close.
 
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sometimes a lighter touch (trad) brings longer ring
-confucius 1328

solution is to utilize both and believe your own eyes (when you see others) and ears (with in your own playing)
and do it your way when you want to
neither way is 'so complex' that you can't perform both
remember the third way butt end out matched- that way kinda 'warms' up your back beat - and rimshot with the fatter side of the stick-
Trad has it pros just like matched has its pros and we are capable of utilizing all grips------if you plan on (or end up!) playing 50 years + and more!! 😁
 
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"The New York Scene" June 1979 Modern Drummer Interview with Bernard Purdie:

MD: What grip do you find most comfortable, matched or traditional?

BP: Both. But my matched grip is matched grip.

MD: Didn’t I see you turn the butt end around in your left hand?

BP: Yeah, I use the butt end in my left hand.

MD: In your left hand? You mean you use the bead on the drum head?

BP: No, I use the butt on the head.

MD: That isn’t matched grip, is it?

BP: Well, it’s not called matched grip, I forgot what I call it now. For me, ( the moment jda names it Purdie grip) in order to balance the stick out and play what I want to play, I beat on the butt with my left hand, because it gives me better control. The feel is right in my hand. That to me was matched grip because then the stick became level by holding the small part of the stick and letting the stick be able to rebound. The stick does very little rebounding in matched grip.

MD: Do you also use this grip when soloing?

BP: I use it whenever I want to. When I’m playing hard, it’s easier to go that way for me. I use the traditional when I’m lazy, when I just want to groove and not do anything. "

(why JDA named butt end out matched in backbeat snare hand "Purdie Grip" 😁
 
"The New York Scene" June 1979 Modern Drummer Interview with Bernard Purdie:

MD: What grip do you find most comfortable, matched or traditional?

BP: Both. But my matched grip is matched grip.

MD: Didn’t I see you turn the butt end around in your left hand?

BP: Yeah, I use the butt end in my left hand.

MD: In your left hand? You mean you use the bead on the drum head?

BP: No, I use the butt on the head.

MD: That isn’t matched grip, is it?

BP: Well, it’s not called matched grip, I forgot what I call it now. For me, ( the moment jda names it Purdie grip) in order to balance the stick out and play what I want to play, I beat on the butt with my left hand, because it gives me better control. The feel is right in my hand. That to me was matched grip because then the stick became level by holding the small part of the stick and letting the stick be able to rebound. The stick does very little rebounding in matched grip.

MD: Do you also use this grip when soloing?

BP: I use it whenever I want to. When I’m playing hard, it’s easier to go that way for me. I use the traditional when I’m lazy, when I just want to groove and not do anything. "

(why JDA named butt end out matched in backbeat snare hand "Purdie Grip" 😁

Thanks for posting. This is the exact question that I asked another drummer a while back. He answered it from the sound perspective. He said you can easily get a fat snare sound from a shallower snare if you hit it with the butt end. I think this is not a wrong answer but it is not the best answer. This is the real reason. It is the hand technique.

stick became level by holding the small part of the stick and letting the stick be able to rebound.
 
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Listen, I have enough difficulty with rimshots without changing the grip! I do alright matched, but the older I get, the less smacking a finger on the hoop appeals to me.

Also, drum sounds do change, but so does everything. I don’t think it’s the gear as much as how easy it is to toss samples on weak sounds. Nobody purposely starts with a weak sound, but it takes a pretty solid budget to mic a drum set, plus the room needs to be a level of quality above your typical kid’s gymnasium.
 
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