Review request: right hand ride playing

frank0072

Gold Member
Hi everyone!

long time since I posted something because I've been rediculously busy with a lot of things (including becoming a father). But since you have always provided me with the best advise I come to you with my current challenge.

I've been playing in a hardcore band for a year and in 3 months we have planned to record. For the record I have play stuff at 210bpm and 220bpm. This is a challenge on the hats already, but I can manage. On the ride though, I cannot seem te play 8th notes for a longer period.

Could you please take a look at the video I made demonstrating my hihat and ride technique at 210bpm? I'm curious if I just need to spend more time playing like this, and that it will come in time or maybe I'm doing something totally wrong...

The video

Thanks a lot in advance!
 
your technique looks ok to me......

heres what I used to do when playing that style and started feeling fatigued

I would play.....say were counting in 8ths.....instead of playing

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

the whole time

every once and a while I would just do

1 + 2 3 + 4

leaving out the and of 2 and 4

its a tiny little break but makes a huge difference when fatigued and sounds virtually no different
 
Disclaimer: I'm no teacher so I'm going to do is spit out some info I garnered from the web, various technique DVD's I saw and my own teacher.

Your technique looks fine. Nice and loose grip. What I don't get is why you do manage those high tempos on the hats and not on the ride. The movements are near identical as far as I can tell (though your left hand is obstructing a good view of your right). Perhaps you put a bit more wrist action into the pattern when playing on the hats.

It would really help if you gave a video of just your ride hand playing 8ths.
 
Your hands look OK, and I enjoy seeing people play thrashy things nice and low and relaxed- I think this is a really nice approach. There's a little bit of wobble in your time, and your RH falls apart a little bit at the end, but it just looks like you're a little rusty- if you play more I think that'll go away. I'd be more concerned about getting a clean transition in your move from the hihats to the ride, and with making this beat sound like music somehow.
 
your technique looks ok to me......

heres what I used to do when playing that style and started feeling fatigued

I would play.....say were counting in 8ths.....instead of playing

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

the whole time

every once and a while I would just do

1 + 2 3 + 4

leaving out the and of 2 and 4

its a tiny little break but makes a huge difference when fatigued and sounds virtually no different

Thanks for your comment. I'll sure try to work on that, maybe it works for me too :) .

Your technique looks fine. Nice and loose grip. What I don't get is why you do manage those high tempos on the hats and not on the ride. The movements are near identical as far as I can tell (though your left hand is obstructing a good view of your right). Perhaps you put a bit more wrist action into the pattern when playing on the hats.

It would really help if you gave a video of just your ride hand playing 8ths.

I've been thinking of this too offcourse, and maybe it has to do with the fact that the hats are more static and the ride moves more when it's played?

I'll try to make a video of just my right hand on the ride today.

Your hands look OK, and I enjoy seeing people play thrashy things nice and low and relaxed- I think this is a really nice approach. There's a little bit of wobble in your time, and your RH falls apart a little bit at the end, but it just looks like you're a little rusty- if you play more I think that'll go away. I'd be more concerned about getting a clean transition in your move from the hihats to the ride, and with making this beat sound like music somehow.

Thanks for your comments man! It's nice to hear that my approach to drumming is considered nice :). I am really trying to avoid injuries and playing on strength alone, because I still want to be drumming when I'm 85 :).
There is indeed a wobble in my time, that's because of the high tempo I have obviously not yet mastered. The right hand falls apart @ 0:29, where I switch from 8th notes to quarter notes, because my hand didn't keep up with the speed.
I am playing one hour every day so I hope the "rusty-ness" goes away in a few weeks. When I am more "above the tempo" and have more "headroom" I'll be able to play the beat more like it's music I hope, because it does sound like an exercise right now.



I'm very curious for other opionions, so please keep replying :)
 
This is one of those interesting motion studies. You get a little hypnotized if you keep watching the video :)

I don't have any specific answers for you, but just some observations and musings...

A closed hi-hat provides a more rigid surface than a ride cymbal, which is just loosely supported near its axis. In the video, when you're playing the hi-hat, I can see the cymbals respond for every stroke that you're playing at a one-to-one ratio. It's bouncing the stick back up for every note, like you're playing a bouncy pad that's on a hard surface. So it appears to be more consistent.

But when you switch to the ride in the video, the cymbal seems to respond out of phase with the stick. Like if you're dragging a tub filled with water and stop and go; there's a delayed reaction. So it appears you're micro adjusting to a spot on the cymbal that isn't in the same place each time your stick comes down. It's inconsistent. And it's forcing you to subtly wrestle with the stick to the point where you're fatigued. To test this theory, see how long you can play the same pattern on high tom in the same position as the ride.

So question time: When you switched from 8th notes to quarters around the 0:29 mark, did it feel tense? Or were you just fatigued? Did you feel the stick slipping out of your fulcrum between your thumb and forefinger? Was there some combination of all of the above?

In general, I would suggest for you to keep doing what you're doing, but just with more endurance. And not just endurance with your hand in one position but as Todd Bishop says, transitioning from hi-hat to ride. Even subtle changes in stick position work different muscle groups, so you should never underestimate what it takes to adjust to changes in hand and arm positions as well as the responses from different drums. Maybe you could make an exercise that makes a steady transition between both cymbals. And as Moon says, break up the steady 8th note time with a quarter not every so often. Not only will it give you a little break, but helps provide a little variety in your time keeping pattern.

-John
 
This is one of those interesting motion studies. You get a little hypnotized if you keep watching the video :)

I don't have any specific answers for you, but just some observations and musings...

A closed hi-hat provides a more rigid surface than a ride cymbal, which is just loosely supported near its axis. In the video, when you're playing the hi-hat, I can see the cymbals respond for every stroke that you're playing at a one-to-one ratio. It's bouncing the stick back up for every note, like you're playing a bouncy pad that's on a hard surface. So it appears to be more consistent.

But when you switch to the ride in the video, the cymbal seems to respond out of phase with the stick. Like if you're dragging a tub filled with water and stop and go; there's a delayed reaction. So it appears you're micro adjusting to a spot on the cymbal that isn't in the same place each time your stick comes down. It's inconsistent. And it's forcing you to subtly wrestle with the stick to the point where you're fatigued. To test this theory, see how long you can play the same pattern on high tom in the same position as the ride.

So question time: When you switched from 8th notes to quarters around the 0:29 mark, did it feel tense? Or were you just fatigued? Did you feel the stick slipping out of your fulcrum between your thumb and forefinger? Was there some combination of all of the above?

In general, I would suggest for you to keep doing what you're doing, but just with more endurance. And not just endurance with your hand in one position but as Todd Bishop says, transitioning from hi-hat to ride. Even subtle changes in stick position work different muscle groups, so you should never underestimate what it takes to adjust to changes in hand and arm positions as well as the responses from different drums. Maybe you could make an exercise that makes a steady transition between both cymbals. And as Moon says, break up the steady 8th note time with a quarter not every so often. Not only will it give you a little break, but helps provide a little variety in your time keeping pattern.

-John

Wow, you've really analyzed the video :). Thanks for the response!

In the video, @ 0:29 my forearm get's fatigued, while my fingers still have the strength to go on.

You're spot on with your observation about the movement of the ride. In the last week I've lowered my ride and even put some felts on top so it's more rigid on it's stand. This has helped me a lot already.

I'm working on my stamina right now, and trying to get more endurance. I've also decided that for hihat-work I only need to play quarternotes, so I've got more energy left for the fast ride sections.
 
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