Rawness

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
So Pol, does KC's Red fall into the raw category ? I've seen them at that song several times live now and there's nothing like feeling like you've been pushed backwards and your hair lot on fire with that one. Even after 40 years it's still a favorite of mine.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Yeah, I love music raw, too. The White Stripes have brought that back into music over the past 10 years or so. And all the best jazz had it.

I can appreciate the perfection but I don't usually get a visceral response to it. There are exceptions, like Steely Dan, etc., but in general, I prefer things a little looser.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I can appreciate the perfection but I don't usually get a visceral response to it. There are exceptions.............but in general, I prefer things a little looser.
Well stated. Covers my thoughts exactly. There always seems to be an exception or two in my world, but generally speaking....give it to me dirty, gritty and raw.

As Jimmy Page would say, "tight.....but loose."
 
Polly - interesting thread!

I think of "Rawness" as less-fabricated music...in other words - Take it as it comes.

A good example of it is The Doors...Yeah Yeah Yeahs and the mentioned The Dead Weather, The White Stripes...
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I just listened to "Chicken Foot" the other day,with Jason Bonham on drums.....these guys COOK.Kenny Aranoff also plays with the band.

Steve B
Ain't they just cool he? ... the original drummer is Chad Smith, he play on both studio albums and during the first world tour on the band :)

Here's a few official clips from Chickenfoot: Joe Satriani, Sammy Hagar, Michael Anthony and Chad Smith... pure rock'n'roll :)

Soap On A Rope http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHqA6HtVU70&feature=relmfu

Oh Yeah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKkxxLEBwBo&feature=relmfu

Sexy Little Thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqpRvFaCtI&feature=relmfu
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
It seems we have two streams - what the future holds and "here's some raw music that I like". Just answering the first and will get to all these juicy links when I can :)


I think rawness needs more understanding to appreciate sometimes and most people these days don't want to understand things outside their experience, and the radio/tv isn't showing them any raw music. Also depends on the genre, I wouldn't want raw classical or dance music.
Yes, I've heard a young person refer to the sound of older music as sloppy. Their ears are being conditioned to music that's as neat as a pin, very precise.

As for classical, some modern performers / composers are serving things up pretty raw. It can definitely work. The old classics like Mozart, I guess not, but it would be interesting as long as it's good players being given licence as opposed to that first-year-school-orchestra type of rawness :)

I can imagine dance music sounding better served up with less gloss and more grit. It could even give it a second dimension :)


We've just come out of a long period of super-slick production, and that has created a vacuum for under-produced, raw music. I see it making a comeback, but as a more mature medium with better production. It just takes time to strike a balance between raw sounding, and what sells.
Good point. Like everyone got over the novelty of the shiny 80s and then it was grunge and indie in the 90s. Over the last decade or so the glossiness has not only returned but it's become a new aesthetic in rock. It's the only way rockers could retain relevance in a musical environment shaped by the constant glossiness of music on the radio.

Seems to me with each back-and-forth movement between gutbucket and gloss, everything becomes a bit glossier. What is considered "raw" now would have been slick in the 60s and 70s. I have a little theory about humans becoming more machinelike and our music tastes following suit ...


It's starting. Pretty soon we'll be calling you "Polly the Punk Rocker".

... "Perfection" is a funny thing. Personally, I simply don't think it should be the goal of a musician.
Not a punk rocker, just a punk :) Punkette?

Agree about perfection. The extra energy needed to tidy up the minutiae could be used to be more expressive.


So Pol, does KC's Red fall into the raw category ? I've seen them at that song several times live now and there's nothing like feeling like you've been pushed backwards and your hair lot on fire with that one. Even after 40 years it's still a favorite of mine.
Not sure it's for me to be arbiter, Bo, but it sounds pretty raw to me. Certainly more so that this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gER41jS6xus
 

jafo

Member
I was alittle lost to the "raw music" terminoligy but I get it now. Basically unrefined music. Like being recorded live with no magic touch from the sound man. What you hear is what you get.

As far as comming back, I just don't know if the masses pay enough attention to it for it to matter. Really in order for a change like that, you have to have a pretty large demand for it. Changes to me really have a to have a large driving force behind it. Make sense?
 

jafo

Member
Another thing to consider also is the massive size of how music is done today compaired to 30 years ago. Back then, you really almost had to have a deal with a major record company to get out there d that got you promoted and tons of exposure directly with the public through radio stations ect. These days with the internet, your exposure is much larger, but your like a needle in a haystack. Example? I've never heard of the Black Keys until this thread. I like thier music, but I think the music industry is so massive and wide spread now, alot of good bands get lost in the haystack.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Henri, loving the Chickenfoot stuff. Good times rock played with grit & gusto. Always up for a bit of Sammy :)

Here's a different slant on raw. Melodic & settled on the song, but still with all the elements that define raw to me, just minus the pace :)

Great musicianship in a big club environment, lovely interaction, & Andy loves 7:34 :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLS2JkoJw6U

In a similar "real rock" resurgence vein to Chickenfoot, but perhaps deeper rooted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82V4gsSW-4&feature=related
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
To me rawness means I can easily hear the instrumentation, the vocal, the form. It's simplicity in that I don't have to strain to figure out what's going on in the mix. Over produced music has the opposite effect of raw or simpler music on me, meaning I don't get anything from over produced music. It's the emotion in the music that I respond to.

That's the whole point of music, to express human emotion. That's one of it's best uses.

Even an emotional song, in an over produced setting...the setting detracts.

Simple heartfelt stuff really rings my bell. DING!

I am simple and I like simple. Simple is elegant. Sophisticated too. Like Apple products.

Simple is charming and accessible. It's easily relate-able. It more easily touches people.

Play "Louie Louie" at a party. Watch the people hoot and holler and enjoy themselves. Then play something really complex, and take notice to the difference in the general reaction.
 

JohnnySomersett

Senior Member
I am simple and I like simple. Simple is elegant. Sophisticated too. Like Apple products.
HAH!

I couldn't think of a company, and its relevant products, being any LESS like the attitudes talked about in this thread than Apple! My god, that company are the most refined advertising , hype-spinning, 'lifestyle' selling, force-it-down-your-throat corporation I've seen for a LONG time. Apple are the electronics equivalent of auto-tuned-vocal-drenched pop!


Anyway, I digress

I can't think of the record right now but I can remember hearing the drummer exhale after an intense part on track once...those sort of small things can make something so much more real. Like Bonzos SK squeak!!
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I was referring to the design alone. Like the Ipad. Everyone knows that Jobs pushed for simplicity and elegance.
So refined it's simple. Maybe that was a bad analogy for this thread lol.
 

AndyMC

Senior Member
Rawness is actually talking to your friends instead of using your apple product to text them.
 

EricF

Member
check out the albums

the big come up
thickfreakness
Rubber Factory

their first 3 and best 3

you wont regret checking them out
Additionally, check out "Chulahoma". It's The Black Keys doing covers of Junior Kimbrough songs (some of his songs show up on their other albums, too). Junior Kimbrough was the single biggest influence on their early sound.

While you're at it, dig into some Junior Kimbrough. Great raw, deep blues....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Taae2zLfA&feature=related

One of the rawest sounds I know, Scott H. Biram is a current artist stomping it out in small clubs across the country...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVWKA74Jtr4&feature=related...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADgCYjAtRUY&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AL94UKMTqg-9DhqNdTX-nTB_hAgEJTNMFD
 
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Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
Henri, loving the Chickenfoot stuff. Good times rock played with grit & gusto. Always up for a bit of Sammy :)

Here's a different slant on raw. Melodic & settled on the song, but still with all the elements that define raw to me, just minus the pace :)

Great musicianship in a big club environment, lovely interaction, & Andy loves 7:34 :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLS2JkoJw6U

In a similar "real rock" resurgence vein to Chickenfoot, but perhaps deeper rooted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82V4gsSW-4&feature=related
Los Lobotomy, I've got the DVD, yes, pure rock'n'roll and 7:34... just pure genius, and the audience liked it too :))

BCC, wow, what's not to like, with such names within a band and considering their respective background, we're for something very special indeed, nice to hear Glen Hugues again, after Trapeze and Purple :) I like this band a lot Andy, BTW, Jason config's reminded me of your gigging kit with "Fired Up", he must be a fan of yours :))
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
HAH!

I couldn't think of a company, and its relevant products, being any LESS like the attitudes talked about in this thread than Apple! My god, that company are the most refined advertising , hype-spinning, 'lifestyle' selling, force-it-down-your-throat corporation I've seen for a LONG time. Apple are the electronics equivalent of auto-tuned-vocal-drenched pop!


Anyway, I digress

I can't think of the record right now but I can remember hearing the drummer exhale after an intense part on track once...those sort of small things can make something so much more real. Like Bonzos SK squeak!!
Wow. And to think they were raw and cutting edge in 1975 ;)
 

HipshotPercussion

Senior Member
I'm with Polly, but my native taste goes beyond rawness and straight to chaos. Early Yardbirds do it for me - but I think they would've been even better if Moonie had been the drummer.

When I realized my own professional work "suffered" from a surplus of polish and that I couldn't break that pattern (and, believe me, I tried), I quit.

And, yes, I really wish the current crop of music producers would do the same....
 

kauaiplayer

Member
On a more tamed down approach, but still very "raw" in terms of vibes and sounds, there's Black Dub, a band produced and featuring Daniel Lanois :)
Thanks for turning me on to these guys Mad. Great stuff!
 

JohnnySomersett

Senior Member
I was referring to the design alone. Like the Ipad. Everyone knows that Jobs pushed for simplicity and elegance.
So refined it's simple. Maybe that was a bad analogy for this thread lol.
That makes more sense. Although, with music I think too much refinement often polishes out the rawness.
 
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