Quintuplet comping whilst swinging

Caz

Senior Member
Just wondering, has anyone explored this much / do you ever utilise quintuplets whilst swinging on the ride? I mean with the ride swinging in triplets, or however you’d usually phrase with a jazz band, and quintuplet comping phrases (based around subdivision of 5 notes per quarter note beat). Working on this just now and thought it’d be nice to hear any recordings where drummers comp like this. Not sure if I’ll use it in a real playing scenario or not yet, it’s taking some time to get it together.. Not planning to use it on swing dancing gigs :)

Caroline
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
I tried playing some 8th note quintuplets in a jazz setting around 1992, and didn't try again after that. If I do anything 5-note based now it's in groupings of five 8th notes or 5 16ths-- RLRLL. Or a mutation of some normal 4/4 thing-- messed with rhythmically.

Seems worth exploring though, just to learn something about playing normal time. It's the kind of thing that could sound contrived if it's too worked out.

I think Al Foster might have worked some of that up, if you listen to him on Joe Henderson / State of the Tenor-- it just kind of sounds out of time. Erskine has talked about basing his cymbal rhythm off a quintuplet, but I don't believe he ever worked out a comping language on a quintuplet grid.
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
Is it just me, or does this seem like “Because I Can” drumming to anyone else? Quints seem like the anti-swing to me.
 

Caz

Senior Member
Thanks Todd, exactly the kind of thing I’m looking to hear about, I’ll check out that album.

Is it just me, or does this seem like “Because I Can” drumming to anyone else? Quints seem like the anti-swing to me.
Fair enough, I respect this opinion. The Charlie Parker omnibook of transcriptions of his playing has loads of quintuplets- do you feel these don’t swing? Arguably they’re not really quintuplets, although arguably triplets often aren’t triplets either 😉 loads of people play quintuplets, I’m enjoying exploring how to comp nicely when this happens.

Caroline
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
Thanks Todd, exactly the kind of thing I’m looking to hear about, I’ll check out that album.


Fair enough, I respect this opinion. The Charlie Parker omnibook of transcriptions of his playing has loads of quintuplets- do you feel these don’t swing? Arguably they’re not really quintuplets, although arguably triplets often aren’t triplets either 😉 loads of people play quintuplets, I’m enjoying exploring how to comp nicely when this happens.

Caroline
I guess it’s a bebop thing then. Can’t say I’m big on it. I respect the heck out of the people who play it but it’s not my thang.
 

jda

Gold Member
I’m enjoying exploring how to comp nicely
I think (...) you can "imply" 5s and sevens (on drums..) By leaving the "feel" say of a "six" but leaving off the last note. Sort of the back Pages of Stick Control. Take a look. You can "hint' at 5s and 7s..groupings... Keeping it in 4/4 or 3/4 or whatever meter by leaving notes "out" or "in".. kind of "metric" subterfuge.

But is True Coltrane and Charlie Parker (horn's) can string and have strung together 5s and 7s all day long; on Drums we have to finesse and subterfuge it a bit +/- Imply it.
Page 45 page 38 Stick Control leave a note-off; it's aborted-stickings -in a way (not a nice word but may get my drift +/-

Also you can "get away" with odd 3s and 5s & 7s grouping's all day long IF they are in a "quarter-note triplet" (see pic) context...
The Context Still has to not conflict too much but at least you're in and not out
Subdivision of 3:2

017.JPG


and even there- especially there- you leave out notes- the end notes; so you're implying a couple things; an odd grouping- and all in a quarter-note triplet broadening
So you "never leave" 4/4 which an audience can groove to

So you can play time there- swing time- and 'jump' out with those figures without jumping meter
& keeping it simple.
 
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jda

Gold Member
Yes there are better subtle ways
Never want to knock the groove or leave the swing
so it has to be done - from within- a three over two or..
from within a 4/4 just little bursts..not rides

017.JPG
 
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jda

Gold Member
I like #13 and #14 there above Todd.. I could finesse smudge those maybe ha
Put the Bass Drum in the Rests..

Maybe there's also something of wisdom's in the series here @Caz
 

Caz

Senior Member
Hahahahaha, here we go. I personally don't want to listen to the kind of player who would make this a way of life-- perfecting it like it's drum corps you'd just sound disconnected from reality. But maybe there's a little bit to learn about finessing normal stuff.

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I’ve heard Ari Hoenig using quintuplets over swing and think it sounds pretty cool. Doesn’t need to be a way of life to explore new things… keen to hear from people who are interested though. I’ve been doing a whole project on expanding jazz vocabulary by applying traditional Indian rhythms, and I’m exploring quintuplets.
 
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fobz

Active Member
What a great idea, super interesting. I love quintuplets and I'm definitely going to try this.

I mainly use RLRRL quintuplets (instead of 4 singles, or 6 singles or 6 stroke roll), I find this the most natural option, probably as it's the first 5 notes of the most conventional paradiddle inversion. I also use a RLRLK combo a lot.

Finally, as someone who has done swing dancing in the past and has played for swing dancing events, PLEASE play this for dancers 😂😂
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
@toddbishop that is utterly ridiculous. One to pull out every now and then but certainly not as the basis of regular playing. Love that you went to all of that effort!

It's all I do man, thank you. But you can tell how wrong it is from the big feel shift between that and the triplets-- like in a situation where everyone's playing a normal swing feel, the quintuplets just cancel the whole contract groovewise. You'd have to use it sparingly at most.
 

Multijd

Active Member
I think you have to hear it to use it. If you can’t hear it you shouldn’t do it unless it’s required for “the gig”. Playing a quintuplet on the beat with a five stroke sticking is something I can hear and feel at certain tempos. But I doubt most people would even recognize that it is a “5”. It just feels right to me at certain tempos. I think Philly Joe did “9’s” sometimes. Not 16ths or triplet phrased in 9 but actual 9 to the beat. I’m not sure quite where this is but I saw a clinician talk about and demonstrate this. I think these ideas usually come from a sticking pattern that is squeezed into a beat. Tempo is always important. One of the problems with this is that the other musicians may not recognize what you’re up to and get confused.
 
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