Quiet gigs but with a good feel - which 'stick'?

bermuda said:
Unfortunately, most of the band's songs don't lend themselves to brushes. I actually had thought about that beforehand, whether I could get away with just a kick (lamb's wool beater of course!) and snare and wire brushes, but I knew that most of the songs would suffer. Maybe even worse than they already did last night.

I actually requested deleting a few songs from the second set, because I knew they wouldn't work at all without a proper feel.
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Faced with similar situations in the past - (and I'm only spit-balling here - because I don't know what material you're dealing with, and you are I'm sure well aware of exactly what you are dealing with) But given that, so only speaking in general terms, I can only suggest... when confronted with doing something that can't be done, embrace doing something different that will. In this case, re-approaching those songs that won't work played in this environment in a way that will. I mean it won't be the normal "proper feel' - it may have to be the best feel that can function in this environment. I mean the song is the song.... and can likely be stripped down to a vocal, one chord instrument and playing on a box with your hands in order to convey its most basic essence. So then from there, it's just figuring out what more you can add than that, :)

Though I'm sure you probably get this - the idea that sometimes it can't be done.... no more than you can ask a trumpet player to play above the staff pp - or a flute to play their low D fff.... you can ask, but it ain't gonna happen. Another solution - a different musical solution must be found.

And I have no doubt that whatever compromised approach you devise will be just great.
 
Have you guys seen the Meinl Nano Sticks yet? Probably the strangest drumstick I've ever played. It's like .4" thick, and almost 17-1/2" long, with a taper but no tip.

Super, super quiet. Still sounds and feels more or less like "a" drumstick, and tom sounds are still surprisingly full, just with the volume turned down to about 3.
 
dcrigger said:
Faced with similar situations in the past - (and I'm only spit-balling here - because I don't know what material you're dealing with, and you are I'm sure well aware of exactly what you are dealing with) But given that, so only speaking in general terms, I can only suggest... when confronted with doing something that can't be done, embrace doing something different that will. In this case, re-approaching those songs that won't work played in this environment in a way that will. I mean it won't be the normal "proper feel' - it may have to be the best feel that can function in this environment. I mean the song is the song.... and can likely be stripped down to a vocal, one chord instrument and playing on a box with your hands in order to convey its most basic essence. So then from there, it's just figuring out what more you can add than that, :)

Though I'm sure you probably get this - the idea that sometimes it can't be done.... no more than you can ask a trumpet player to play above the staff pp - or a flute to play their low D fff.... you can ask, but it ain't gonna happen. Another solution - a different musical solution must be found.

And I have no doubt that whatever compromised approach you devise will be just great.
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Much respect to David Crigger, please look him up if you don't already know. :)

The truth is, this band should not have accepted that gig expecting to play the material as we always do. I heard 'restaurant' and assumed it was bigger, maybe carpeted. In future, I could simply suggest we don't play there (inside) again as a full band. But this is an interesting problem, and if there's a solution, I'm happy to pursue it.

Then again, if I suggested we just avoid the place, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that. :)

That's really the easiest answer, but I won't give up without a fight.
 
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dwsabianguy said:
Have you guys seen the Meinl Nano Sticks yet? Probably the strangest drumstick I've ever played. It's like .4" thick, and almost 17-1/2" long, with a taper but no tip.

Super, super quiet. Still sounds and feels more or less like "a" drumstick, and tom sounds are still surprisingly full, just with the volume turned down to about 3.
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Will look into that, thanks!
 
Stroman said:
Those look interesting. Kind of a more extreme take on the jazz stick taper. I might try some of those for kicks.
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I also use the VF Echo för really quiet giga, and they _definitely_ feel weird at first. But the grip part is thick, similar to the VF Bolero I usually play, and the ball tip still gives a nice cymbal sound, so for me they are well worth the effort.
 
bermuda said:
They balked when I wanted to bail from a couple of songs I knew wouldn't work. They typically respect my wishes, but I don't know if I can sell them on a whole gig with normal brushes and still serve the songs. Sonically I see a cajon working either, the songs are what they are and not open to much interpretation. The other members are kind of at a loss to understand why my volume adjustments can be a detriment to the sound and feel of the songs.

I'm starting to think that before I jump through too many personal performance hoops, I just recommend we don't play there again until we can set-up outside and I don't have to compromise the feel of the band.
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Sure, that all makes sense. If you did want to "stick it out" (sorry) with this gig maybe check out another band that plays there regularly and see how they approach it? Here's an example of a blues shuffle with brushes and sticks, both sound really similar from a non-drums point of view and I don't know if the rest of a band would notice much difference if it felt good on brushes - it's not as noticeable on a recording with mastering, but live the brushes allow a much lower volume. I play this one sometimes and pick which to go for depending on how busy the blues bar is.

T-Bone Shuffle with brushes
T-Bone Shuffle with sticks

The groove aspect is kind of independent of whether sticks or brushes, but I suppose there's a big difference for us playing-wise as it's more horizontal playing as opposed to vertical.

bermuda said:
Much respect to David Crigger, please look him up if you don't already know. :)

The truth is, this band should not have accepted that gig expecting to play the material as we always do. I heard 'restaurant' and assumed it was bigger, maybe carpeted. In future, I could simply suggest we don't play there (inside) again as a full band. But this is an interesting problem, and if there's a solution, I'm happy to pursue it.

Then again, if I suggested we just avoid the place, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that. :)

That's really the easiest answer, but I won't give up without a fight.
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Have just looked up David - heavy CV David! And you can tell because his answer is great advice.. you can totally make it work. Let us know how it goes
 
dwsabianguy said:
Have you guys seen the Meinl Nano Sticks yet? Probably the strangest drumstick I've ever played. It's like .4" thick, and almost 17-1/2" long, with a taper but no tip.

Super, super quiet. Still sounds and feels more or less like "a" drumstick, and tom sounds are still surprisingly full, just with the volume turned down to about 3.
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oohhh, just what I need for quiet gigs and home practice at night. Hunting now on internet, Sweetwater is out of stock but seems to have best price w/free shipping.
 
bermuda said:
I remember those, thanks!
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Second these, I was about to suggest them... they are so thin and light that if you accidentally get too loud they will break, immediately solving any volume issues you might be having! 🤣

Maybe throw some tea towels on the batters and you'll be as soft as feathers.
 
Perhaps instead of using regular drums and cymbals with specialty sticks, maybe try specialty drums and cymbals with regular sticks. If the volume is low enough, Sabian’s quiet practice cymbals might do the trick. Cove your drum heads with towels or the SoundOff pads and slam away with 5Bs. If that’s not quite loud enough, maybe the Sabian FRX?
 
I've just come home from a gig where I literally played in someone's kitchen. The host wanted "real" bebop, it was a quartet with saxophone, guitar, double bass and drums and the guests were sitting max. 3 feet away from my drums. I don't hold back in terms of intensity, but I have good technical control over my volume. It was still quite a challenge and without Frank Kincel's sticks I would have had quite a bit of trouble.
My secret weapon is the JB505X that he built for me.
Extra light hickory, very long taper, 0.505" thick and 16" long.
A tip that gives you a full sound that is somehow softer than similar sticks. I don’t know how it works, but those Bopworks sticks have a louder sound, even with similar specs.
I could easily play a Louis Prima gig in someone's bedroom with these.

JB505X tear - Jazz - Bounce

Pro - matched JB505X tear drop- Bounce - hickory drumsticks Length - 16 inch Shaft diameter - .505 inch Tip - tear drop Taper - long Weight range - lighter Jazz weight range (32-39g*) Wood Type - Hickory LaBB product description here.
www.labackbeat.com
 
Not quite what you’re looking for but I’ve had great success playing quietly with the old Calato Blasticks. For me to make them sound like sticks, every hit is a rimshot and it works well for me. I’ve also altered technique with real sticks by pulling up on the stick and lightening my touch (Rob Brown did a video on this and I noticed I’ve been doing it since the early 80s).

And although I don’t turn down gigs, sometimes I question those venue owners who want live entertainment but want the band to play so soft as to negate why they’re there. I’m not saying the band be oppressively loud, but it’s not quite an event if the audience doesn’t know they’re there. So there have been times when I’ve said “no” when the person hiring wants everything so soft I become an FM radio in the background.
 
You could saw off an inch or two from maple sticks. That would definitely reduce tip speed.
 
Those VF Echo’s have the thicker butt and even longer taper than what I recommended- I like the ball tip. I’ll I have to try them- I bet they are quieter with even longer thin taper.
 
ive seen drum stick tip dampners on amazon. they are a rubber tip with like fins that you slide on the existion tip. they may work?
 
bermuda said:
Much respect to David Crigger, please look him up if you don't already know. :)
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Thanks - my friend - and same back at you.
bermuda said:
The truth is, this band should not have accepted that gig expecting to play the material as we always do.
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I agree - that sounds like the whole crux of the problem.

And again to reiterate - I never assumed that you actually needed much - or any - help with this. I just thought it was cool that you offered up the situation as a topic for conversation. Because I would assume that many folks run into the same sort of dilemma quite often. (Thus my 2 cents being added) :)

Hope you're able to get the band all on the same page - one way or another.
 
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