Question for Singing Drummers

dboomer said:
The Levon Helm example is only valid if you play on 60‘ wide stages with a 30’ proscenium overhead. It does not translate well to a small stage.
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..yes nothing works unless you have a 60' wide stage Lol.. the point is the mic placement. You don't need the big hanging contraption he uses.. but I used to use that setup for small and big stages all the time just with a standard boom stand. My current band has 4 awesome vocalists so I don't even bother trying..
 
I found my mic gooseneck last night - I think it's a 12" gooseneck, so I'll take it to rehearsal tomorrow night to see how it fares and whether or not it will help me get the mic position well.

I know a bit about sound and mics, so I absolutely hear what everyone is talking about in regard to the drum shield, being right against the back wall, and how mics handle that. Again, right now I'm bringing my own SM57 with the genuine Shure accessory foam windscreen, and it does ok, but a Beta 58 would probably be better at handling side and rear rejection. There's not much I can do about the back wall except to keep the mic right in front of my face, pointed directly back at my face, and hope that my head is blocking the ambient sound coming off of the back wall.

The truth is, this situation is not ideal from a sound perspective in virtually every regard, and there's not really a solution that I can present that would help or even be considered. It is what it is.

On a side note, I'm singing this one this week - I hope I do ok with it.

 
dboomer said:
That may be of some value if you play out in the open. A tight pattern rejects sound coming at it from the sides. But if you are basically back up against a wall it is of no value because everything bouncing off the wall is bouncing back directly on axis.

The Levon Helm example is only valid if you play on 60‘ wide stages with a 30’ proscenium overhead. It does not translate well to a small stage.
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I'm not sure if you've used an OM7 before but even reflected sound on-axis is barely if at all picked up. When I say I have to be up on the mic for it to "hear me," I'm talking about it being no further from my mouth than tongue's distance. YMMV.
 
As a matter of fact, I used to work for Audix. An OM7 is a standard hypercardioid mic and is subject to inverse square law just like every other hypercardioid mic. What makes people think it rejects sound is that its sensitivity is 10dB lower than similar mics. It’s a trick!

Unlike almost every other mic, the Crown mic is a “differoid” mic which means it’s ability to differentiate is controlled by the ratio of the pickup at the front of the capsule compared to the back of the capsule. Once you are a foot or two away both pick you up about the same and therefore are cancelled out.

Check this out ...
 
I like you deal alparrot! The place we play most often has a wall with a tv to my left-- I don't want to face that way!
I will grumble at the tv from time to time, but don't want to sing to it.
I been using some old Sure headset mic, but it is less than ideal. It doesn't sound very good and sags when I bop my head around too much.
I have a SM57, please do let us know how that works with the walls, etc. I want to sound better and not have to be so careful about breathing on the mic.
 
dboomer said:
As a matter of fact, I used to work for Audix. An OM7 is a standard hypercardioid mic and is subject to inverse square law just like every other hypercardioid mic. What makes people think it rejects sound is that its sensitivity is 10dB lower than similar mics. It’s a trick!

Unlike almost every other mic, the Crown mic is a “differoid” mic which means it’s ability to differentiate is controlled by the ratio of the pickup at the front of the capsule compared to the back of the capsule. Once you are a foot or two away both pick you up about the same and therefore are cancelled out.

Check this out ...
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Thanks for the info and clarification!
 
trickg said:
There's not much I can do about the back wall
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The only suggestion I could make for sound reflection would be to put something on the wall or against the wall like sonic panels or foam or something to absorb some sound. If the drums don't move, you might be able to get away with that. If not, they might not go for it.

My situation is a bit different these days since I'm on a riser that is rolled out to the center of the stage for the contemporary service and then rolled to the side for the traditional service. It has a full perimeter of plexiglass panels around it with one panel missing in the back to get in. It had a roof of sonic dampening panels but we took that off last month. The drums sound better now and are more alive in the room but I want to remove the whole row of back panels so that I don't get a bunch of slapback into my vocal mic. That's the next step. At least I do have just enough room on the riser to place the mic stand to my left. I run the iPad from there, too, so I have the iPad, the Aviom unit to control my mix and my mic all next to my left hand for easy access.
 
Donzo, it sounds like you have more challenges that I do!

There's been some conversation about enclosing the drums in a whole Plexiglas box, but I don't know if the church is really down to do all of that. The contemporary service is almost treated like the red-headed step child and an afterthought. The bulk of the congregation - the "Frozen Chosen" - seem to prefer the later traditional service, and having the added PIA of an enclosed drum kit.

I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to stay in this situation. As with most church situations I've been in, there always seems to be battling factions, and this case is no exception, but that's a different subject for a different thread.
 
trickg said:
Donzo, it sounds like you have more challenges that I do!
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Everything was going pretty smooth and I was happy just playing and trying to keep it all together but then our music minister took a job at another church. He was the strongest male vocalist and he knew proper rhythmical interpretation. The other singers don't quite know how to sing funky rhythms that go beyond 1/8th notes, so they kinda listen and wait to hear what everyone else does and then the vocals just drag and the rhythms get too square and mushy. So, I thought I would jump in to help keep them more upbeat and to help everyone understand what the actual rhythms are. Also, we have 2 teams of vocalists that each sing every other week but I'm there every week with the band, so I can add some consistency and help out both teams. So far, it's been positive but it is taking some extra effort on my part. I don't mind because I have been a member of this church for a long time and I really want to help them succeed and be able to reach the highest level that we are collectively capable of. Plus, since I'm a long time church member and I'm one of the few players who gigs regularly, I have a bit of clout there and people do take my suggestions seriously.
 
I totally get that - the gals in the praise team sound exactly like what they are - church choir vocalists playing at praise band. One of the things that blows my mind is their lack of ability to use syncopation correctly - they always want to straighten rhythms out rather than to sing the proper syncopated rhythm, which I think is probably just due to a lack of confidence and a lack of experience doing contemporary music. Most of the stuff they are used to singing is pretty straight rhythmically.
 
Ghostin one said:
Straight stand with a round iron base, and a c. 12" goose neck, parked on my left side (I'm right-handed). Works great! I use a mic with an on/off switch.
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This.

Look up Fred LeBlanc from Cowboy Mouth & he'll show you how it's done. No need for fancy wireless/clip-on/headset equipment. Just get a goose neck or boom style & rock it!!
 
I appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. I'm taking my gooseneck in to rehearsal tonight to see if it helps at all.
 
trickg said:
In recent months, I've been getting involved more and more with my church's praise team as a vocalist. Initially it started off with very simple, straight forward songs because as many of you know, singing and playing drums takes a whole different skill set and approach. Frankly, I don't particularly care for doing it, but because I'm a strong singer, and now that they know I can, they have been assigning me at least one song every week.

This brings me to the question - what do you guys use for a mic stand?

right now I've just got a boom mic coming in from my right side. It's a simple enough solution, but it has it's drawbacks because it limits my movement a little bit. Yesterday I found that I was bumping it a bit whenever I came around to playing something on my floor tom.

I was thinking about maybe looking into a headset mic, but I'd want something affordable and decent enough quality - right now I'm using a Shure SM57 with the foam windscreen. A friend of mine has suggested getting on the goose neck mic stands and using that.

So what do you singing drummers use?
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Hello....I use a simple headset. It is easy, in fact perfect. I could not stand singing into a boom. With this little headset I am so much more free. It was affordable (about $100.00) and has a small flexible mic. I can switch it on and off as needed. The cord is long and slips right down my shirt along with the little box that holds the batteries inside. The box is smaller that my cellphone. This device is connected by digital magic to the main box that is plugged into the amp. Volume is also controlled at the main box. The quality is fine. I am not a lead singer I sing backup.
 
I never could use a mic stand comfortably. I always used a headset mic. I only sang back up but I did banter quite a bit with our crowds. Just because I’m sitting down behind everyone doesn’t mean I’m not part of the show.
 
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