Question for 24" x 14" kick drum owners.

cdrums21

Gold Member
Hey everyone,
So I recently purchased a Ludwig classic maple kit with a 24" x 14" kick drum. Before that I had a DW 22" x 18" kick drum. With the DW kick, it was very easy to tune and sounded punchy with nice low end. In fact, any 22" drum I have ever owned (Yamaha, Ludwig, DW) has always been easy to get a good sound out of for rock. The Ludwig 24" sounds good, but I am still tweaking it and experimenting and am finding the tuning to be going against what I normally do. I know that the 24" batter head needs to be tuned up a bit higher to get the shell engaged and have the drum sound full with a nice tone. Too loose and it's all attack, no body. I have the batter head tuned to where it feels and sounds good, (it's at an "F"- 87 hz. for tune bot guys, of which I don't own). I'm happy with that. I normally tune my resonant head a little higher, but with this drum...I'm running in to a bit of a quandary. I have a 4" hole at the 4 o'clock position on the resonant head with a DW hourglass pillow lightly touching both heads for muffling. I have a clear P3 on the batter head and a smooth white ambassador for the resonant head. If I tune the resonant head up higher than the batter like I normally do, it sounds full and cuts, but lacks some low end. If I tune the resonant head below the batter, the nice low end is there but it is slightly less "present" acoustically when playing in a band context. I am an experienced player and tuner, so it's not a tuning technique issue. I also have been playing Remo heads forever and am quite happy with them, so a head swap doesn't interest me. I'm just not sure if this is common with 14" depth bass drums and am curious to know how those of you who have the same size kick drum tune their resonant head in relation to the batter. I know shell construction (3 ply as opposed to thicker shells) will have some impact on the sound and tuning as well. I am after as big a sound as I can get with the kit tuned in a way to sound best 10 feet in front of the kit rather than at the throne. The rest of the kit sounds killer, just looking for some feedback. Anyone care to chime in?
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Clint! Long time no see (or read, as the case may be).

As to your question - I currently have a 24X16, but have had two other kits with 24X14 - actually, each of those kits had 2 24X14s. The current kit is a Ludwig Classic Maple.

I have to say, all of mine have responded well to the reso head being higher than the batter. In fact, right now I have it tuned a LOT higher than the batter. Plenty of low end, both to the ear and the mic.

I wonder, and this is pure speculation, if a lot of the low end is subsonic or nearly so? Maybe you are used to hearing more of a certain frequency range? I can't say for sure.
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
Clint! Long time no see (or read, as the case may be).

As to your question - I currently have a 24X16, but have had two other kits with 24X14 - actually, each of those kits had 2 24X14s. The current kit is a Ludwig Classic Maple.

I have to say, all of mine have responded well to the reso head being higher than the batter. In fact, right now I have it tuned a LOT higher than the batter. Plenty of low end, both to the ear and the mic.

I wonder, and this is pure speculation, if a lot of the low end is subsonic or nearly so? Maybe you are used to hearing more of a certain frequency range? I can't say for sure.
Hey Man! I know, all of my drums respond best to the reso head being higher. That's why I'm scratching my head a bit on this one. I don't think I'm used to hearing a certain frequency range or anything like that, not sure what's up. When you say you have yours tuned higher than the batter, how much higher? Are you talking significantly as in a fourth or fifth? I have my reso about 1/2 step higher than the batter right now and it's cool, but if I take the reso down to just below the batter, I get much more low end, but as I said, less presence. Maybe my batter head is tuned a tad too high? I don't know...it doesn't seem like it though...... Are you able to quantify what notes you have the heads tuned to by chance?
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Hey Man! I know, all of my drums respond best to the reso head being higher. That's why I'm scratching my head a bit on this one. I don't think I'm used to hearing a certain frequency range or anything like that, not sure what's up. When you say you have yours tuned higher than the batter, how much higher? Are you talking significantly as in a fourth or fifth? I have my reso about 1/2 step higher than the batter right now and it's cool, but if I take the reso down to just below the batter, I get much more low end, but as I said, less presence. Maybe my batter head is tuned a tad too high? I don't know...it doesn't seem like it though......
Yes, the reso is probably a 4th above the batter. Now, the batter is low enough that it's tough to hear a certain pitch, but not so low it's all attack. The reso could pass as a tympani, lol.

The end result is a fat, low sound with a short note and plenty of attack.

I really haven't used the deep 22 inch drums, so I can't say how they compare.
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
Yes, the reso is probably a 4th above the batter. Now, the batter is low enough that it's tough to hear a certain pitch, but not so low it's all attack. The reso could pass as a tympani, lol.

The end result is a fat, low sound with a short note and plenty of attack.

I really haven't used the deep 22 inch drums, so I can't say how they compare.
That helps a lot man, thank you. I may try taking the batter down just a touch and cranking the reso up to around where you have yours to see what I get. I know the 24" is going to sound different than the 22", not really looking to get the same sound, but I would think the 24" would have plenty of low end and would be easy to tune to get that fat rock sound. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good, but I think it can be better. I'll experiment some more and hopefully get it sounding and feeling great. Anyone else, feel free to comment!
 

Jbravo

Senior Member
I have a 24x14 classic maple kick also. My batter head (single ply clear) is tuned quite low, but not slack at all. My reso is single ply with a 4”port. It tuned higher than the batter.

However, I use an Evans patch where the beater strikes, and 2 felt strips across the batter. I don’t use any muffling inside the drum.

This gives me a fairly controlled, yet open sound, especially when I don’t bury the beater.
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
I have a 24x14 classic maple kick also. My batter head (single ply clear) is tuned quite low, but not slack at all. My reso is single ply with a 4”port. It tuned higher than the batter.

However, I use an Evans patch where the beater strikes, and 2 felt strips across the batter. I don’t use any muffling inside the drum.

This gives me a fairly controlled, yet open sound, especially when I don’t bury the beater.
Cool, I have run mine similar to that as well, but my reso head was un-ported and I used one felt strip on the reso head. It sounded cool, but easier for me to have the hole to mic the drum in various situations. I like an open but controlled sound as well and I use a Remo impact patch, not the falams patch, where the beater hits. I see you run your reso higher pitched as well. That seems to be the consensus when picking brains, I just have to find a tension on both heads that works best. Thanks for your input man!
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
24x14 GW here. EMAD2 on the batter, unencumbered single-ply reso. No internal dampening contraptions. I've been unable to get a bad sound out of it at any tension.
 

IBitePrettyHard

Senior Member
I know you've been using Remo for a long time, but I gotta say when it comes to bass drum heads nothing compares to an EMAD2 or a Superkick II. Maybe it's just me, but I've never been completely happy with a Remo P3 on any of my bass drums. They've never given me a satisfying sound. I've always switched them out because an EMAD2 or Superkick II consistently have more low end rumble.

In the world of comparing drum heads, most differences are subtle.....but that is not the case when comparing a P3 to an EMAD/Superkick. The difference is night and day!
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
I know you've been using Remo for a long time, but I gotta say when it comes to bass drum heads nothing compares to an EMAD2 or a Superkick II. Maybe it's just me, but I've never been completely happy with a Remo P3 on any of my bass drums. They've never given me a satisfying sound. I've always switched them out because an EMAD2 or Superkick II consistently have more low end rumble.

In the world of comparing drum heads, most differences are subtle.....but that is not the case when comparing a P3 to an EMAD/Superkick. The difference is night and day!
I hear what you are saying. I had an Emad on my 22” DW kick before and I liked it. But, the reason why I opted for a P3 was because it was louder and more open sounding, which I preferred on that drum. I have debated about trying an Emad out again on this drum, may do that if I can’t be satisfied with the P3, but they’ve never let me down before. I guess it’s just personal preference. Funny thing, I came home today and immediately got my kick drum out and tried out some suggestions I got on here today. The best sound I got, by far.... great attack and plenty of low end, was when the batter head was a medium low tension and the resonant head was a step lower. I was quite surprised as I’ve always run my kick drum tuning the other way around.
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
Remo Powerstroke Pro Batter.
Hey man, thanks for your input. I’m not really a fan of super pre-muffled batter heads. Lack of volume and what they take away compared to a P3 are an issue for me. Power stroke pro, Emad 2’s and super kicks have nice low end for sure, but take away some volume and presence along with it....at least for me. I’m very close to getting what I’m looking for, just surprised it’s not how I expected it to be. I don’t muffle any other drums in my kit and I try to use just enough kick drum muffling to take away the right amount of overtones without losing volume or “boom”. I like a touch of resonance in my kick drum. Your point of the attack/shallow depth is well taken. I am getting used to it. Having the resonant heads tighter on the toms, kick and snare on all my other kits I’ve had really made the drums open up, sound livelier and have great low end. This bass drum is different so far and it’s throwing me for a loop a little bit.
 

ineedaclutch

Platinum Member
I have found that the PS3 and some drums just do not get along. It's like they can be either low and plasticky, or those jeans are high and tight with no punch. There seems to be no middle ground. Ambassadors work great on the kits listed below. I think it has something to do with the way the head sits on the bearing edge of some drums.

Since you're asking about Ludwig: I have a 24x16 CM that I cut down to 24x9 and the PS3 sounded terrible both ways. I also have a Ludwig Giglite with a 20x8 and I only use the PS3 if I'm in need of a plastic slap. Not really punch, just a very short slappy sound.
Similar story with Aquarian SKII. Sounds like someone is hitting a couch with a pillow.

The DW kit sounds great with either head. The Starclassic Maple sounds great with the PS3.

I've never been let down by the emad, emad 2, or emad heavyweight. I have a variation of the Emad on 6 kits atm.

I can get along with just about any snare or tom head and make it work. Your case might not be a tuning issue as much as it is a head not liking the drum more than just a friend.
 

RickP

Gold Member
I have my 24 x 14 N&C Horizon bass drum set up with a Clear PS3 batter with felt strip and Remo Fiberskyn PS3 Resonant with no porthole . I tune the batter side one half turn above wrinkling and the Resonant side a full turn above wrinkling . I also love using a Danmar JR Robinson Square red wood beater for added punch .
 

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cdrums21

Gold Member
I have found that the PS3 and some drums just do not get along. It's like they can be either low and plasticky, or those jeans are high and tight with no punch. There seems to be no middle ground. Ambassadors work great on the kits listed below. I think it has something to do with the way the head sits on the bearing edge of some drums.

Since you're asking about Ludwig: I have a 24x16 CM that I cut down to 24x9 and the PS3 sounded terrible both ways. I also have a Ludwig Giglite with a 20x8 and I only use the PS3 if I'm in need of a plastic slap. Not really punch, just a very short slappy sound.
Similar story with Aquarian SKII. Sounds like someone is hitting a couch with a pillow.

The DW kit sounds great with either head. The Starclassic Maple sounds great with the PS3.

I've never been let down by the emad, emad 2, or emad heavyweight. I have a variation of the Emad on 6 kits atm.

I can get along with just about any snare or tom head and make it work. Your case might not be a tuning issue as much as it is a head not liking the drum more than just a friend.
You could be right brother, I may have to try something else if it continues to be a source of frustration.
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
I have my 24 x 14 N&C Horizon bass drum set up with a Clear PS3 batter with felt strip and Remo Fiberskyn PS3 Resonant with no porthole . I tune the batter side one half turn above wrinkling and the Resonant side a full turn above wrinkling . I also love using a Danmar JR Robinson Square red wood beater for added punch .
Cool brother, and nice pic! I used to tune my 22” kick just like that. Sounded great. When I tune my 24” drum like that, I get all attack, no body or low end, and the shell isn’t engaged in helping to produce the tone. It’s not until I tune the batter head up some that the drum really starts to come alive. My drum is ported, out of necessity and hassle for micing mostly, but I do like the sound of an un-ported head. For the situation I play in, a ported head with a little muffling works best. I’m still tweaking and experimenting....at least I’m getting to know the capabilities of this drum :)
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
They are all pre muffled to some degree, you could always go old school single ply with felt strips or a Pratt. try everything I have.
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
When I had a 24x14 many years ago, it sounded best with a black dot batter, small pillow and clear ambassador reso with a hole in the center about 12” wide.
Very old school, but worked so well with the big and shallow drum.
It was a very nice sound with a D12 mic inside.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I'll have to grab some frequency measurements from my 14x24 tonight. Heads are Evans Emad Onyx (don't think the onyx matters much on this head) with a stock PS3 style reso. It's definitely tuned pretty tight, especially the batter when compared to a 22". But the feel and tone are a lot better with the tighter batter head.

I use a pillow with it just barely touching both heads and the thin Emad ring on the batter. It can still play pretty quickly without it sounding out of control, but slower groove beats gives the drum room to breath and have a nice bloom to it's tone.
 
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