Question about rubber gasket under imperial lugs

Boom

Silver Member
Thanks for the post Bob. In your opinion, after reading this thread and seeing how much rubber is added to the shell of the drum, do you think all of those gaskets affect the BB's sound?

I know your earlier post said you like them fine with gaskets. It just seems very hard to believe that you could add that much rubber (which is under tension as you've described) to any shell and not affect it's sound.

Virgin bass drums, RIMS, low mass lugs etc. It would appear that one of the main improvements in drum manufacturing has been in minimizing the hardware's effect on the drum's sound. But in this case, Ludwig is going against that trend and actually adding more hardware to the shell. Doesn't that seem odd to you? (even taking into account the logic of your post for less rattle/play and protecting the finish). Don't you think there has to be a better way for a high end snare drum to be manufactured?
 

Soupy

Silver Member
Without a proper double-blind test, I'm not going to believe there is any noticeable difference in sound. If drummers can't tell the difference between birch, brass, and aluminum, there's no way that the difference between gaskets and no gaskets is obvious.

Confirmation bias easily trumps most anecdotes.

But also, I am a bit of a skeptical, grumpy old goat, so take that as you will.
 

Boom

Silver Member
Soupy, now don't take this as being argumentative (at least not aggressively so), but isn't there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to dampening on a drum? I'd assume you'd agree that covering 100 percent of the drum in rubber can't be a good thing.

So, I guess you are saying that amount of rubber shown earlier in this thread doesn't seem substantial enough to you to make a difference.

Your point about a double blind test is well taken. I won't be able to A/B side to side the BB that I've ordered as I don't have any other BB's. I guess I'll stop harping on this as I see I seemed to have stirred up a little bit of a bee's nest here.

Thanks for all the input, guys.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Thanks for the post Bob. In your opinion, after reading this thread and seeing how much rubber is added to the shell of the drum, do you think all of those gaskets affect the BB's sound?

I know your earlier post said you like them fine with gaskets. It just seems very hard to believe that you could add that much rubber (which is under tension as you've described) to any shell and not affect it's sound.

Virgin bass drums, RIMS, low mass lugs etc. It would appear that one of the main improvements in drum manufacturing has been in minimizing the hardware's effect on the drum's sound. But in this case, Ludwig is going against that trend and actually adding more hardware to the shell. Doesn't that seem odd to you? (even taking into account the logic of your post for less rattle/play and protecting the finish). Don't you think there has to be a better way for a high end snare drum to be manufactured?
My take on it is that the lug contacts the shell with or without the gaskets. The screw and the washer are the main contact point between a lug and a drum shell. The vibration will still be transfered from the hoop to the shell. I don't think that the gaskets make much difference in the sound at all.
Again, If you want to remove the gaskets you can do so in a short amount of time with simple hand tools and little effort.
All of the intermediate level drums that I have bought in recent years have had gaskets.
I never thought much about it because I liked the drums.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Without a proper double-blind test, I'm not going to believe there is any noticeable difference in sound. If drummers can't tell the difference between birch, brass, and aluminum, there's no way that the difference between gaskets and no gaskets is obvious.

Confirmation bias easily trumps the anecdotes in this thread.
A mate bought one a few months ago and we were able to a/b the two. Putting two drums side by side you can hear it. Definitely a quicker decay of the fundamental overtone (but not as much as say, swapping the flanged hoops for die casts). But the difference is there in that environment. However, it's that brass ringyness that decays quicker.....which is exactly the overtones that disappear once a band cranks up around you anyway. In that respect the difference in the two shells is gonna be negligable.

It's certainly not worth losing sleep over, but for anyone seeking that fundamental tone that the BB has built it's reputation on.......take 'em off. It's not gonna be world's apart if you leave 'em on, with very few ever likely to notice.........but sometimes it's the subtleties that make the difference to the sound in our own heads..........or maybe I'm just a traditionalist at heart. :)
 

Sean75

Junior Member
I can tell you this. I just sent back a 410 Super Sensitive I bought after hearing some older ones on Youtube, and they sounded so much like the John Bonham sound I personally like.Got it, but it did not have all this resonance I heard on videos. I saw the rubber gaskets and wondered what it would sound like if I took them off. Wish I had. The P-70 strainer had a minor issue not staying alighned right after making numerous adjustments, so just sent it back today for a refund to get a Black Beauty with tube lugs. Yes I know Bonham did not use a Black Beauty lol.

For those who DO NOT want that open ringy sound with overtones, then these gaskets are perfect for you! If you want that classic sound of the 70's versions, take them off!!! All that rubber dampens the shell! There is a very convincing video on Youtube showing this.

And the worry about the imperial lugs going to scratch the shell without the gaskets. Yes they will. I had one from 1989 I bought, and I took a lug off and could see a slight indention in the shell, but did no harm to the sound of the drum. No one would ever know unless they took the lug off. Not a big deal to me. I but most of those have them. If the drum sounds great, don't change a thing.

By the way, I am just getting back into drums after a 14 year vacation from playing, and don't know half of what you all do, but I used to hate ringy overtoned snare drums, and I was wrong so I learned how important it is to leave them open to get that full sound I was always taping and muffling.

Watch Youtube videos from the Drumcenter, and memphisdrumshop. The videos you see with the imperial lugs just do not have that sustain as the tube lugs have. A 5X14 and a 6 1/2 black beauty video from the memphisdrumshop site shows the tube lugs with great sustain and overtones compared to the imperial lugs mainly on the 5X14 version. That is just my ear anyways, and maybe how they was playing on the drums with the imperial lugs was a factor? We all hear different things I guess. If we all liked the same sound I guess the world would be boring. Hope this helps somebody.
 
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mandrew

Gold Member
There is another option that Ludwig could take, and that would be to make he gasket material out of a harder compound that allows vibration to pass through it rather than dampen. I have tube lugs and use gaskets with them, but they are more of a hard plastic, which eliminates splay, but does not dampen any noticeable amount. another reason for gaskets is to stop any vibration between the metal lug and shell if the fit is not perfect.
 
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