Question about rubber gasket under imperial lugs

cdrums21

Gold Member
I just ordered a 6.5x14 Supraphonic Chrome Over Brass. According to the stock photo, it should come with the gaskets. As far as looks go, I think the gaskets are a nice addition. I may think differently after the first time I play it.
I've been playing a b-stock Black Beauty without the gaskets. That drum has diecast hoops which I'm sure inhibit the sound of the drum a little. The new COB I'm getting will have triple flanged hoops which usually allow a drum to open up more. I'm wondering if the COB with gaskets and flanged hoops will sound similar to the BB without gaskets and with diecast hoops. Anyone care to guess?
The stock triple flanged hoops on a brass drum allows the drum to open up fully, but that brass"ring" is just a tad too prominent in the sound for me without any muffling, which I prefer not to use. The die cast hoops take a bit of the harshness of that ring out, leaving a really nice smooth tone. For me, I'd go with a gasket-less die cast hoop wearing brass drum. So to guess at your question, I'd say the BB without gaskets and with die cast hoops will sound sweeter than the COB with gaskets and flanged hoops. They'll be similar, but I think the gaskets will take away more of what you want in the drum than the triple flanged hoops will add. Make sense?
 

spleeeeen

Platinum Member
The stock triple flanged hoops on a brass drum allows the drum to open up fully, but that brass"ring" is just a tad too prominent in the sound for me without any muffling, which I prefer not to use. The die cast hoops take a bit of the harshness of that ring out, leaving a really nice smooth tone. For me, I'd go with a gasket-less die cast hoop wearing brass drum. So to guess at your question, I'd say the BB without gaskets and with die cast hoops will sound sweeter than the COB with gaskets and flanged hoops. They'll be similar, but I think the gaskets will take away more of what you want in the drum than the triple flanged hoops will add. Make sense?
Hi Clint,

Just wondering if you've had a chance to make a comparison between an S-hoop and a die-cast hoop on a brass drum? I've a snare with S-hoops and I'm wondering if going to die-cast would subdue a bit more of the "harshness" that you mentioned.

Hope you are well!

spleen
 

cdrums21

Gold Member
Hi Clint,

Just wondering if you've had a chance to make a comparison between an S-hoop and a die-cast hoop on a brass drum? I've a snare with S-hoops and I'm wondering if going to die-cast would subdue a bit more of the "harshness" that you mentioned.

Hope you are well!

spleen
Hey brother, good to hear from you! The s-hoop I find is somewhere between a triple flanged hoop and a die cast. It doesn't quite smooth out as much of the overtones as a die cast hoop, but it does tame them down nicely. I think it would sound very similar to a die cast on say a brass drum with the s-hoop allowing the drum to open up just a bit more. Might be just the ticket for someone looking for that sound. Good question, thanks for asking about that. Hope all is well with you too!
 

Boom

Silver Member
I just wanted to point out that I asked the drum shop to ask Ludwig to *not* put the gaskets under the imperial lugs on the black beauty I ordered (and am still waiting on for like 8 months) and the shop told me that Ludwig said this could not be done.

I think that is pretty ridiculous. Just put a note saying during assembly not to throw on the rubber gaskets...it can't be complicated to not do it, right?

So instead, I have to take the whole drum apart and remove the gaskets myself. Kind of irritating.
 

cornelius

Silver Member
It's actually pretty quick to take of the hardware, to get to the gaskets. Well worth the effort...

As far as getting the heads off and on quickly - I use a Firefly drum key - it made the process go much easier. Check 'em out - I swear by mine.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Kind of irritating.
Only until you hit it. :)

Agreed, can't see why it's so hard for Ludwig to do.....but when all is said and done, it's a simple job that'll take you a few minutes and you'll never think of it again. The sound of the drum without gaskets far outweighs the effort to take them off IMHO.

Enjoy your BB!!
 

Boom

Silver Member
I use a battery powered screwdriver to both take the tuning rods out and the screws holding lugs on. Yes, it doesn't take that long. I was just hoping that Ludwig would help me in that regard, but, I guess they can't/won't.

It is just odd because I've read countless player's opinions about how they dislike the dampening the gaskets cause to the shell, and yet, I've never heard anyone say they prefer the gaskets. Like many in this thread, I'm surprised Ludwig continues down this path.
 
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Doctor Dirt

Guest
Ludwig likes them better on so they continue to use them. Maybe their janitor thinks the drums need them or maybe they've done studies on this topic, you know metal to metal or metal to wood and have found that they prefer to have a buffer (gasket) in between the two sides, go figure. Personally I think Ludwig has alot of nerves not listening to the five people who "want their maypo" I mean their gaskets eliminated.

................Ludwig!!! damn it get with the Program!!! You'd think they'd know something after 100+ Years but NO they Don't!!! Doc


what about the guy who has to take a drum apart how horrifying!!!! Whats next , tuning the damn thing too..................
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Ludwig likes them better on so they continue to use them. Maybe their janitor thinks the drums need them or maybe they've done studies on this topic, you know metal to metal or metal to wood and have found that they prefer to have a buffer (gasket) in between the two sides, go figure. Personally I think Ludwig has alot of nerves not listening to the five people who "want their maypo" I mean their gaskets eliminated.

................Ludwig!!! damn it get with the Program!!! You'd think they'd know something after 100+ Years but NO they Don't!!! Doc


what about the guy who has to take a drum apart how horrifying!!!! Whats next , tuning the damn thing too..................
The point is that the drum sounds better without them. Quite often it's the case that ideas that are a detriment to the drum (that is a very expensive drum, by the way) shouldn't be implemented. If a drum is this expensive, it should be perfect and nothing less but Ludwig haven't done that. They've added mass that kills the tone and that should never have made it through testing in the first place, however simple the solution. Ludwig should have found a compromise; like much thinner gaskets made from a slightly harder material.
 
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Doctor Dirt

Guest
...................and ofcourse you've notified them of your revelations!!!! Your just submitting this here to get the HUGE support and backing of the forums community as "Gasket Fighters" take on the corperate paradiddles known as the Ludwig Brass Paradiddles! Doc



.............good luck friends, another reason why I never cared for Ludwigs the Ludwig people are..........................NUTZ!!!!
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
...................and ofcourse you've notified them of your revelations!!!! Your just submitting this here to get the HUGE support and backing of the forums community as "Gasket Fighters" take on the corperate paradiddles known as the Ludwig Brass Paradiddles! Doc



.............good luck friends, another reason why I never cared for Ludwigs the Ludwig people are..........................NUTZ!!!!
I'm not sure how to respond to this. I'm not sure if you're genuinely misanthropic or just very bad at putting together a coherent series of thoughts on a reply. Do you think that Ludwig owners are all 'nutz' or are you trying to make a point? Either way you seem to have wound up a number of people already by responses like this.

Some companies (e.g. Evans) have good representation here. There's nothing stopping Ludwig from doing some free market research.
 
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Doctor Dirt

Guest
Get a life son and stop insulting people (misanthropic?) really?? "coherent series of thoughts" you pompous escapee from a dictionary club!!! Just having fun, theres nothing malicious said and if you can't tell I'm having fun by the use of the word NUTZ ...and spelling it wrong you really need a vacation. What a bore you have to be at party, then again I doubt if your asked to attend. Oh yeah the "dictionary club"! Doc
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Wow, Are you guys having words over a stupid rubber gasket?

Drums never used to have gaskets on the hardware and now they do.
~ If you don't want the gaskets you can take them off.~
I grew up without gaskets on my drums.
The drums sounded fine.
I have bought new drums with gaskets and I have no desire to remove them.
The new gasket-ed drums sound just fine to me.

And yes, If you remove the gaskets the hardware will leave a mark on the shell of the drum.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Firstly, I feel no need to apologise for having an education and using it to express myself on a public forum. If you need a dictionary to read any of my posts, there are plenty of free options online.

I think the issue is the nature of the first reply in this thread of 'Doctor Dirt'. Apparently it's useless complaining about everything because nobody will ever see it. This thread is not a complaint so much as it is advice on what to do if you are disappointed with a Black Beauty. If you are going to make sarcastic posts on a forum make sure it is at least lucid enough to be comprehesible.
 

Boom

Silver Member
Doctor Dirt, you have been very helpful to me in other threads and quite courteous. I do want to put out I was surprised by your response in this thread.

I was just simply adding that I had asked, through my shop, for Ludwig to skip the process of throwing on the gaskets. I do not think this is asking too much. This is not an inexpensive drum.

I wasn't debating whether gaskets on or off is the way to go. This whole thread was pretty informative about how much dampening is going on with those gaskets. Some customers don't seem to want it. They never were on there until sometime recently. Look at any used BB or supra on Ebay that is over 10 years old and not one have I ever seen had gaskets.

So if Ludwig didn't see fit to put them on for 80 years, and now they have customers who don't want them on, why not oblige? Just an odd response is all I was pointing out.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
When a hard metal lug is screwed to a hard drum shell there is a propensity for the lug to loosen up over time and rattle.
If a soft rubber gasket is installed between the lug and the shell it crushes a bit and the gasket helps to maintain tension between the lug and the shell.
It prevents unwanted vibrations from loosening the lug.
The gasket also prevents marks from forming on the shell.
That is why manufacturers have installed gaskets on drum lugs.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
I would just like to add my two cents to this. I was looking at two picks on a drum store site, of two different BB's. One with gaskets, and one without. The one without showed the obvious rod splay that many have complained about. The one with, had no splay. I think another reason they added the gaskets, was to eliminate the tension rod splay.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
It also allows for use of the same lugz as on wooden shells as it acts as a spacer as was mentioned above. After reading this thread I took the rubber gaskets off of my Brass PDP snare. I have not had a chance to try it out but will give it a shot. And Bob must want to join the Dictionary club using big words like propensity. I have sent my membership dues in and am awaiting the latest edition of Funk and Wagnalls desk top set.
 
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