Pure Insanity

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SickRick

Guest
So I'm transcribing Dave DiCenso by request and I come to a point where he goes into a metric modulation which I cannot figure out really.

Check out this video right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_81IomgGEY

At 3:49 is where it happens. To me, it sounds like he is playing triplets in groups of 4. Quite standard really. He starts on the last triplet of the bar though which makes it pretty tricky.

Now.... I'm quite confident, that I'm right about that. Problem is, that the vamp by the band just doesn't fit to that. They play on totally different places than they should if I was right. So: Are they wrong, or am I wrong?

Terry? Zsolt? Anybody?


Oh yeah.... and btw his chops are absolutely freaking nuts.
 

Mighty_Joker

Silver Member
That was a great performance! Are you transcribing the whole song, the whole 9 minutes, or what?

I'm sorry, I can't help you with the transcription, but I'd absolutely love to get hold of it once you're finished. Will you be uploading it here?

Good luck with it, and I really hope to see it when you're finished.
 

joeneau

Member
Wow!
never heard of this guy before for some reason! so thanks for your thread!
I be REALLY interested to see your transcription when its done too!
do you have a studio recording of the song or are you trying to use that vid?
 
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SickRick

Guest
I am using the vid that I've posted.

I'm transcribing the solo part which starts somewhere around 3 minutes. I'll also transcribe the second solo (there is a solo from a different show at the end of the video. I actually prefer that second solo because it's not as free as the first one and has more interesting phrasings to my taste at least).

As always, I'll be sharing it here for free. Check out my other stuff if you haven't done so already. You can find it here:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57485

And here:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/...ghlight=a+peek+inside+jojo+mayers+head&page=2

Maybe I'll start a new thread at one point, where I put all of my stuff together, like Korompay does with his stuff.
 

Caz

Senior Member
Hey - sorry, I've changed my mind. I think it's definitely just triplets, but the rest of the band DO keep playing at the right time over the triplets... Any other views?

EDIT - it's part way through the displacement, before the end of the solo, when the vamp goes off... but at the beginning of the dispacement (and during the triplets) I think it's fine, just sounds quite mind bending because of the displacement.

And the guitarist's facial expression seems to be pure appreciation!! What does everyone else make of this?
 
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SickRick

Guest
Hey - sorry, I've changed my mind. I think it's definitely just triplets, but the rest of the band DO keep playing at the right time over the triplets... Any other views?

EDIT - it's part way through the displacement, before the end of the solo, when the vamp goes off... but at the beginning of the dispacement (and during the triplets) I think it's fine, just sounds quite mind bending because of the displacement.

And the guitarist's facial expression seems to be pure appreciation!! What does everyone else make of this?

No other takers on this one? Come on guys!

Caz: I can assure you 100% that if he is playing triplets the way I described (starting on the last triplet, then groups of 4 notes), the band is lost after the first bar already. What they play absolutely does not match triplets at all.

I'm through transcribing what he plays until he goes into the long single stroke roll. I've used the triplets as my reference point because that seems what he wants to play / that's how he feels it. He seems to be thinking in Groups of four until that long roll - at least that's how he subdivides all the crazy licks. (there is some groups of 5 in there too, but he seems to be playing that group of 5 over the superimposed group of 4). The band does not have anything to do with that though, they just play where they feel is the beat which unfortunately is not where it's at in reality.
I'm guessing that through that roll he listens to where the band is at and then adjusts. At least that is the only way that I can notate this properly.

It's easy for me to say though from behind my Laptop, having unlimited amounts of trys.

Also: I still might be wrong about the triplet. Maybe he is playing something else that I just don't understand :)
 

Caz

Senior Member
Hey - yeah I see what you mean... sorry I was referring to the bit just before when I said it was going into triplets - the bit around the toms (it's around 3:43). For the bit just after, I'm absolutely certain that you were right in that he starts on the last triplet, and I think it is taking every fourth triplet as the beat - but yeah it does seem to shift just after the beginning of that bit. I'm a bit lost after that - that's where I noticed the band change the vamp, so maybe he does shift to keep it together - that'd be pretty impressive though as he shifts it without flinching!

I don't think it's anything more complicated than what you were saying initially though - it feels right with the triplet idea, just isn't perfectly tight... but I don't think it's anything much crazier than that. Hopefully someone else can come along with a proper answer to this!
 

joeneau

Member
Yeah i think it is like a weird triplet thing starting on beat four of the bar. its really odd and hard to get tho! and yeah i do agree that the band does get kinda lost, i guess because they werent expecting it and thought he was dragging/pushing time and then they try to compensate. its nuts!
 

LinearDrummer

Silver Member
I'm transcribing the solo part which starts somewhere around 3 minutes. I'll also transcribe the second solo (there is a solo from a different show at the end of the video.



This is gonna be soooo cool.
Thanks man...can't wait!
 

Caz

Senior Member
Yeah i think it is like a weird triplet thing starting on beat four of the bar. its really odd and hard to get tho! and yeah i do agree that the band does get kinda lost, i guess because they werent expecting it and thought he was dragging/pushing time and then they try to compensate. its nuts!

Hi there. I vote for starting on the last triplet of 4 instead of actually on beat 4. Though listening back to it, it doesn't seem like it's the drummer compensating for any gaps or anything - once he goes into that beat it seems to be where he wants it to be - perhaps it's the other guys compensating then, at first I thought it was the drummer. It does seem like it's the other guys who mess up a bit there.

I still think it's taking every 4th triplet as the downbeat, then using that beat as a basis for 16ths - starting on the last triplet of beat 4... but when I forget the rest of the band and just tap that through with the drums it seems to waver off a little after it starts then come back into that count, so I'm still not 100% sure.. damn I really want to know this now. Who wants to email this guy?!
 
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SickRick

Guest
Hi there. I vote for starting on the last triplet of 4 instead of actually on beat 4. Though listening back to it, it doesn't seem like it's the drummer compensating for any gaps or anything - once he goes into that beat it seems to be where he wants it to be - perhaps it's the other guys compensating then, at first I thought it was the drummer. It does seem like it's the other guys who mess up a bit there.

I still think it's taking every 4th triplet as the downbeat, then using that beat as a basis for 16ths - starting on the last triplet of beat 4... but when I forget the rest of the band and just tap that through with the drums it seems to waver off a little after it starts then come back into that count, so I'm still not 100% sure.. damn I really want to know this now. Who wants to email this guy?!


Last triplet of four it is. One hundret percent sure about this now. Like you sayed, he is using this beat and then plays 16th notes over it (this are 16th note triplets in the original tempo but also phrased in groups of 4).
After the long single stroke roll I am a bit lost - if you slow it waaaay down, you'll realize that the roll cannot be in triplets (doesn't fit the vamp) but also not in 32nd notes (doesn't fit the vamp either). I think it's really wicked how he gets into the beat again after that part (when he only plays the bassdrum and raises his left stick on the snare).


My transcription is on a good way and it will be a real nice one, I can tell you that for sure now :)

I've written out all the notes in 16th triplets, so even if it doesn't really match the beat you will still get to see what stickings / hand feet combinations he is using.

The part after that was much easier to write out because everything is locked in with the beat. Transcription should be done in a few days/weeks depending on my schedule.


BTW: I wrote him an email, but so far: No reply.
 

joeneau

Member
Hi there. I vote for starting on the last triplet of 4 instead of actually on beat 4. Though listening back to it, it doesn't seem like it's the drummer compensating for any gaps or anything - once he goes into that beat it seems to be where he wants it to be - perhaps it's the other guys compensating then, at first I thought it was the drummer. It does seem like it's the other guys who mess up a bit there.

Yeah man thats what i ment, its the rest of the band compensating =]
and i think you and rick are definately right, its the last triplet of beat four JUST before the guitarists hit their pharsing again on beat one of the next bar.
 

JesusMySavior

Silver Member
This guy has some serious chops :D
 
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SickRick

Guest
Actually.... it's done.

But I cannot upload it since there are too many spots which are unclear (because of the band timing issue). At these spots I can only guess what Dave is playing and what he wants to play.

To be honest: I hate guessing and I hate inaccuracy even more. Therefore I probably won't upload that thing at all in it's current version. I just don't want to have something on the web for anybody to view that does not match my standards but has my name on it.

I'm really sorry about this.

What I will do though, is take the parts which I am certain about and upload these. This is still quite a bit of great Licks and grooves. I can also upload some of the Licks away from the solo so that people will at least get stickings and orchestrations that they can check out.

Also, I will transcribe the second solo (in the end of the vid) which seems to be more locked in with the band and less "free" over the vamp.

I'll be on vacation though for the next 10 days (snowboarding in austria, yay), so you'll have to be a little patient.

Really sorry about this but hopefully people will understand. Also: sorry about the delay. I had to transcribe a Solo by Billy Cobham for myself (need it for a band) which took some time and had to transcribe the whole 21st century breakdown album by Green Day for my students and a whole lot of Billy Talent.... requested transcriptions for DWF are always at the least priority because they don't pay :) (although they are usually the most fun).
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I don't visit this section much because I have little to offer, but this one caught my eye. There's funk drummers & there's funk drummers, but this guy's on a different planet to most. Totally unreal in every department. Both inspirational & saddening in equal measure. I'm blown away by this and greatly heartened that such great stuff is coming from the new generation of drummers. Great effort you're making on this SR. Doubt I'll benefit from your stirling work though as I don't stand a cat in hell's chance of pulling it off.
 
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SickRick

Guest
It's done.

I hope that everybody will have fun with this. Sorry once again for the delay and some missing parts (esp. in the end) due to what I said earlier.

Nontheless, I'm pretty proud of this one and I'm sure that everybody will be more than happy with this. All the essentials are there and as always: So are the stickings.

Enjoy.

Everybody owes me a beer now. (in case we should ever meet).

Second solo is on it's way, but it will take time.


Lutz

P.S.: transcription starts at 3:13
 

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